At a recent anti-war rally in Washington protestors carried signs reading "End Iraq War. No Iran War. Impeach, Impeach, Impeach!" Many critics of the Bush administration have stated that the administration's current policy on Iran mirrors its policy on Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion of that country in 2003. They believe that the White House is planning on a war to remove the Iranian government from power. These critics point to the rhetoric coming out of the White House as proof. Just as the administration painted a picture of an Iraq devoted to the development and use of weapons of mass destructions, they now portray Iran as a state seeking nuclear weapons - and planning to use them.
The Democratic leadership in Congress recently tabled a plan to require Congressional authorization of any military action against Iran. Critics say that this decision provides the president the opportunity to invade Iran at will. The Bush administration has accused elements of the Iranian military of actively supporting insurgent groups in Iraq. Some have said that these accusations are meant to grant legitimacy to the president's claim that the the authorization to use force against Iraq has not expired, and that he has the right to use force as he sees fit. By tying Iran to the Iraq war effort the president can make the case for invasion more legitimate.
Members of Congress who gave President Bush the authority to invade Iraq have often claimed that simple ignorance led to vote "yes". The administration had made a compelling case against Iraq, convincing many in Congress that Saddam Hussien's regimes posed a clear and immediate threat to American security. The images of terrorists armed with chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons drove them to vote for war, these lawmakers say. Of course, these lawmakers have conveniently forgotten that a multitude of critics had stepped up to debunk the evidence against Iraq provided by the administration. History has shown that these critics were correct. No weapons of mass destruction were found, and many suspect the case for war was simply an exercise in baseless propoganda. Or lies if you will.
Still, this time around many politicians are buying into the case being made against Iran. Barack Obama recently told New Hampshire voters that he never believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, but that he was gravely concerned about Iran. The evidence the young senator has seen indicated that Iran was indeed planning on joining the nuclear party.
The idea is certainly not implausible. Iran's decades long role as Washington's nemesis has left Tehran feeling vulnerable. Nuclear weapons in the game of global power politics provide a state with a degree of immunity from attack. They also provide enormous leverage in international negotiations, as has been the case for North Korea. The United States has a history of political intervention in Iran, a history which was only brought to an end by the country's revolution in the 1970's. Tehran's leaders have undoubtably been listening to the White House talk about a "democratic revolution" in Iran and are eager to solidify their political future.
A few things to think about when weighing the administration's claims about Iran:
1. According a Washington Post article, "Iran says it will never give up its right under the treaty to enrich uranium and produce nuclear fuel. But it has offered to provide guarantees that its nuclear program won't be diverted toward weapons as the U.S. and some of its allies fear." The treaty refered to here in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which allows for the development of peaceful nuclear technologies such as power plants but seeks to halt the spread of nuclear weapons. Iran has repeatedly insisted that its nuclear program is meant to produce energy, not bombs.
2. Scott Ridder, a former marine and one time chief weapons inspector at the United Nations, recently spoke at the University of New Hampshire in Durham. Prior to the invasion of Iraq, Ritter had called for patience and for a committment to the weapons inspection process. He claimed that there was no proof that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Today, Ritter believes President Bush lied about Iraq's weapons capabilities to win public support for the war.
According to a local news story on the event Ritter had this to say about the administration's case against Iran:
"Ritter pointed out inaccuracies in statements released by the CIA and President Bush. According to Ritter, the CIA recently said Iran is seven to 10 years from possessing a nuclear weapon. 'That means nothing,' he said, adding 'starting from scratch today, in Durham you are seven to 10 years away,' drawing laughs from the crowd."
What do you think? Is the Bush administration planning a new war? Is the administration's case against Iran simply empty propoganda or even blatant lies? Is the administration suffering from a boy who calls wolf complex, so that even when it tells the truth its critics hear only lies?


Comments: 50
Daniel A. - One might point out that we had yet to subdue Afghanistan prior to the invasion of Iraq. This administration was set on invading Iraq. It has been equally set on "democratizing Iran". With only a few years to go - and every sign indicating that the individuals in this administration are not likely to be invited back into any future administration anytime soon - this is their last chance to fulfill their agenda. I am not saying a war with Iran is going to happen, but it certainly seems possible.
Just curious, but where did you find the information about centrifuges and statistics for how many are needed for peaceful energy purposes? I am always open to new facts and sources. As my article indicates, it is possible Iran is seeking nuclear weapons. Of course it is also quite possible that they are not.
You can all state what you want, you believe what makes you comfortable, you can be oblivious to the obvious; but the statement that I started off this comment with says it all!!!!
If you have any doubts what the CIA and a president together, or apart for that matter can do....You need to wake up and read this.....
This is far from guessing or stating what you might think could happen, this is what has happened in the past....FACTS....So what do you really think will happen in the future? Do you actually think anything has changed?
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976932470
Its a good thing you pointed out Israel. They are most likely to attack Iran should they become a real threat. But If Israel does attack, Iran will not attack back. THat would be so stupid of them.
The plan is already underway....Granted Iran is a serious threat to not only de-stabilization of the Middle-East but the current administration has also insured that they have pushed the right buttons to get the right response for a reason to take Iran out.....Oil or no oil....Right now in world opinion (thanks to Bush) Iran is the "Devil".....I actually think this time he might be right.....
Also, I would like to see some of your evidence that says we are kidnapping their statesmen, and hiring groups to destabalize their regime. I have heard nothing of this.
http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2006/11/hersh_will_cont.html
http://artvoice.com/issues/v6n11/is_bush_backing_al_qaeda
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976918914
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17369.htm
As for the kidnap, I was referring first to the raid in Irbil and now the "disappearance" of Asgari who would make a good excuse for attacking Iran because he supposedly is carrying many "secrets". Okay, they haveh't confirmed that it was the CIA yet but there is good motive, and his family says that he would NEVER defect without telling them where he was going.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Reza_Askari
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=361992007
The United States has been endorsing reform in Iran ever since that nation's revolution in the 1970's, often by backing groups and individuals calling for Democratic reform. Unfortunately, this administration's strong handed approach to Iran has undermined the legitimacy of these reformists in the eyes of the Iranian public. The war in Iraq has had a similiar affect.
The Iranian people elected their current president largely as a reaction to the rhetoric coming out of Washington. They were drawn to this anti-reformist largely because he was willing to take a stong stand against the U.S. Iranians believe they are next on the list for American invasion. What makes the current situation bizarre is that Iran may well be pursuing nuclear weapons in order to make an American invasion untenable. The U.S. does not fight wars with nuclear powers, and Iranians know this.
EXCUSE ME!!!
Where does this hubris come from that maintains Washington is the ONLY actor on the world stage?
Could it be that the Iranian people elected the mayor of Tehran (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) because he campaigned against Iranian corruption?
Mr. Ahmadinejad, though a radical, has long been known for being clean by Iranian standards. He has also been Losing support in Iran because of his focus on foreign policy and antagonism of the U.S. The Iranian people elected Mr. Ahmadinejad to focus on DOMESTIC policies rather than to embarass the country in the eyes of the world.
Get a clue, sometime people react to local events -- not everything in the world revolves around a leftist agenda.
2. The Iranians did indeed elect Ahmadinejad because he promised to be a tough domestic reformer. Now he's being ridiculed for his authoritarian tactics and being more interested in getting on TV or being in the papers then actual reforms of anything he promised.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6290101.stm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/irannuclearpoliticsahmadinejad
3. The groups labeled to be pro-Israel in America actually have a very long history of doing harm to Israel or putting it in a tough spot. Neo-conservatives over the last 40 years have forced Israel to sell weapons to Iran in the Iran/Contra affair, have to withstand wars started near its territory and taking the blame for US actions that adversely affected the region all while PNAC and AIPAC claimed how supportive they are of Israel as an ally. With allies like this, Israel needs no enemies.
Also, if you check OpenSecrets.org you'll find that there's less then $1 million from pro-Israeli groups entering the political system every cycle. Compare that to the $40 million of oil money entering the system every 2 years. All the pro-Israeli groups combined have about as much power as a minor environmental lobby. Oh and just because there are some people with dual citizenships making suggestions about the handling of Israel in the US government doesn't erase all the problems that the so-called Israeli lobby created for Israel. In fact that lobby is such bad news for Israel that it should probably be called "mismanaging the relationship with Israel lobby" because that's what they do.
I've read some of Chomsky's ideas regarding the supposed Israeli lobby and it seems that he plagiarized something from the Protocols of the Zion Elders which in itself is a plagiarized version of Conversations with Napoleon in Hell written by a 19th century German Catholic who blamed Jews for Jesus's death.
Bush is a master of Texas Poker playing. To throw the 2008 election, a crisis must be created. You're either with us or against us. Circle the wagons around our remaining troops in Iraq! Here we go again. The stakes are high, this Administration has little regard for human life. A conflict with Iran, you bet, it's gonna happen. Which Sheriff will ride in on the Republican ticket in 2008? Woe be us.
This is a problem in a welfare state where 80-90% of their exports, 25% of GDP, and 50-60% of their government revenue comes from oil. If exports fell to 0, the government would either have to raise taxes greatly or reduce social programs, either of which would probably cause the government to collapse.
That's funny... I don't see anything in my post saying that there was.
Let's just keep these criminals in check until we can turn the reins over to somebody with some diplomatic and leadership skills, and see if we can't find a more reasonable solution...
You say: " appearances are important to this administration. But they do not want to repeat the fiasco that led up to Iraq. THis time, they really will use every diplomatic option on the table. This time, we will build a solid alliance with Europe, Russia, and China, and the Middle East. Once we have clearly demonstrated that Iran is unwilling to cooperate with the West, then we will resort to military methods. And when we do, nobody will call it immoral or wrong.
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"and when we do no on will call it immoral or wrong."
What WOULD you call it? A nice friendly gang bang after softening them up with sanctions? Kinda depends on how you're defining "no one." That's exactly what happened in Iraq and "A LOT OF PEOPLE ALL AROUND THE WORLD BELIEVE THAT IT WAS/IS IMMORAL AND WRONG, not to mention STUPID! And you are going to pay a price for that stupidity and greed, along with all the rest of us.
As for questioning Olga's or anyone else links, get EDUCATED Ty. There's no excuse for such ignorance. We've been operating covertly all through the middle east and the rest of the world and fomenting and toppling goverments right, left, and center, and funding terrorists and bad guys like Saddam, since the CIA began in the 50's -- and before that. Read some history for god's sake and stop asking other people to spoon feed you information.
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David,
" Barack Obama recently told New Hampshire voters that he never believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, but that he was gravely concerned about Iran. The evidence the young senator has seen indicated that Iran was indeed planning on joining the nuclear party."
This is really troubling and unfortunately the direction in which things will go without without a massive backlash from voters. They will all participate in the dog and pony show of an investigation [notice how Gonzales seems to be a done deal], leaving the back door wide open to Iran.
In an interview with Amy Goodman, Wesley Clark confirmed the plan for Condi's hit list of eight countries. Iran was to be last and then got moved up [because of the screw up in Iraq and Russia, China, EU flexing their muscles over the spoils.] Venezuela is on the list, as is Syria. Iran now on back burner, but all the arguments and the pros and cons of cost effectiveness, blah blah, don't necessarily mean anything to this miserable excuse for a president and his cronies.
I personally believe that if he can possibly do it before he leaves office he will -- and most of congress is in accord, because then it will have been on his watch. They weren't smart enough the first time to get it right, who says they'll let that stop them in Iran? Just blow it up and worry about it later. Halliburton and others will be happy to put the rebuilding in their forecast of forward plans.
Also, it is not a crime to question sources. I agree that the CIA has been doing covert missions since the start of the Cold War. But pinning specific events on them with ZERO proof gives me the right to question statements.
George Walker Bush is, unquestionably, the worst President never elected, and his prep-schoolboy mentality is going to destroy this country if he is not reined in by Congress - soon.
The Deciderer needs more things to Decider on, for heaven's sake! Throw that G**da**ed piece of paper away already!
I think a good number of leaders enjoy popularity because of their anti-American or more importantly, anti-Bush rhetoric. The past century was full of examples of polular leaders in developing countries solidifying public support by bashing the West. Take Nasser in Egypt for example. Or a more contemporary example would be Hugo Chavez.
I am not saying that Iranians elected Ahmadinejad strictly for his anti-American rhetoric. You are certainly right that Iranians had many reasons for supporting Ahmadinejad, but his anti-American rhetoric certainly helped his case. Cleansing a nation from foreign influence is standard reformist rhetoric in the developing world.
I agree! It certainly is not a crime and we have an obligation to question sources; expecially those from our current goverment. But you've got to get the basics yourself. It's no badge of honor to be completely ignorant of history and events that are common knowledge to anyone who has the eyes to see, the ears to hear and a brain to comprehend. It's tempting sometimes to think you're just being a Hugh Jass, for the fun of it, but I don't think you are.
You say: "But pinning specific events on them with ZERO proof gives me the right to question statements."
It gives you the right to disagree and or offer an alternative set of facts; and if that is not possible --or you simply choose not to do so -- then it's a "discussion or dialogue or a mutual decision to exchange opinions." This seems to be a lost art on 'gather.' It's more fun to exchange duel sets of claims from someone else's blog, or dissect youtube pictures as to their real significance and meaning. Usually, a waste of time that only serves to cement opinions on either side.
I do heartily agree, however, that some of the blogs are way ahead of the corporate media in getting current information into the public forum. If you think The New Yorker is "weak" perhaps it is weak, but that's your "OPINION" of just one particular source.
Since you say you're "there," perhaps there are things you can share without compromising your integrity or security that give everyone else some insights which we wouldn't otherwise have. I would love to talk to some "brass or boots" on the ground instead of the suits that get in front of the TV cameras.
The young men and women I know of who have been there and come back are reluctant to say much at all -- which I like to think I understand -- because they think we couldn't possibly understand, and so it goes.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4107270.stm
"His presidential campaign focused on poverty, social justice and the distribution of wealth inside Iran."
"He also has a reputation for living a simple life and campaigned against corruption."
Some Iranians might like his anti-US speeches, but this was not the main reason why he was elected.
Yep, circle them wagons because the terrorists [you can tell em even tho they don't wear uniforms] are lined up at the top of the hill -- but I don't see no cavalry anywhere in sight. Congress is scurrying around back there in the deep woods, but no fresh troops and no fresh candidates either. Obama is buckling already and Edwards has a sick wife. Where oh where is the cavalry. Why, I declare, it's us, leaderless little troopers all.
And for Barack Obama, he is an idiot! He is my Senator and I have watched everything he has done (or in his case, NOT done) He is not qualified for the position he dose have, why would anyone want him as president?
I agree with your earlier statement about the nature of "pro-Israeli" groups. The groups only represent the interests of certain elements in Israeli society, and not always the broader interests of the Israelis on the whole. I will be more careful in my choice of words in the future.
You ask: "Why don't you see the truth? Why dose the spin always make the USA the bad guys? The United Nations is making the majority of treats to Iran. And if we do go and fight Iran, it would just be fulfilling our obligations to the NU."
See my comment above. Most of the spin, and a vast amount of our tax dollars, are spent on convincing us that we are the good guys when, for example, we invade another country to take their oil, or other resources. The IMF and the World Bank and the U.N. are our accmplices, thus far. With our weaponry and vested financial alliances we seemingly control the world [though other countries do have the capacity to nuke the crap out of us].
In spite of the control we wield, would you agree that Operation Iraq has not been an overwhelming success or a slam dunk, or a cake walk? Nor are our so-called alliances quite so willing to look the other way or "cooperate" in the quest for empire -- except of course as they what they consider their share of the action.
The balance of power in the world at large is shifting. It remains to be seen how the good guys and the bad guys shake out of the hat. You do recall that we were friends with Saddam [and Halliburton made a fortune from him] before we were enemies? You do recall that we trained the "freedom fighters" [who were not such good guys in the first place] in Afghanistan and then abandoned them. Now they're terrorists. You do know that Karzai supported the Taliban before we installed him in Afganistan's version of the Green Zone.
Ed, the list is endless. Be a good guy and take your blinders off. This is all information that's available, though the CIA [like the proverbial rabbit in the hole] like to think their covert activities remain inscrutable.
Btw, I think both the CIA and the FBI are taking a bum rap for this administration and every administration before them, not to mention the fact that they are following "someone's" orders."
If we really do want to wind up being the "good guys" and if we want to survive we're going to have to seriously reexamine some of our myths versus global realities.
You're not even coherent. You could stand to get informed as well. Do some research; read a book; watch something besides Fox News.
Back to the original question: Is Iran next? It was supposed to be and will be if Iran makes miscues which Security Council Members can't live with -- as in not in each their own best interests. [This bone is being picked over really good.]
Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki's appearance at the last minute in lieu of Amadinajad [ostensibly because the "we" prevented him and his party from obtaining visas] is very interesting. [I'd love to be a fly on that wall.] Basically Iran has responded to the latest sanctions by insisting that it will only motivate them further to pursue what they regard as their right to pursue nuclear power, for peaceful purposes.
Mottaki says Iran has no intention of suspending it's enrichment program [that will depend of course]. "The world must know -- and it does -- that even the harshest political and economic sanctions or other threats are far too weak to coerce the Iranian nation to retreat from their legal and legitimate demands. Suspension is neither an option nor a solution," said he to the Security Council after the vote.
The new sanctions are a compromise between the stronger ones wanted by the U.S. and EU and the softer approach advocated by Russia and China. The toughest part is considered to be the ban on exports though Iran's arms sales may not be affected because they are illicitly put in the hands of Lebanon's Hezbollah and the Shiite militias in Iraq. The latter being part of the "stuff" Peter Pace uses to justify our going after Iran ["where we find their stuff" he told congress]
British Ambassador E. Jones Parry said "this resolution sends an unambiguous signal to the government and people of Iran. The path of nuclear proliferation by Iran is not one that the international community can accept." [the international community is apparently defined as he and U.N. cronies see fit -- but will also surely see the unadulterated hypocrisy in all of this -- and what will or can be done about it?]
Iran, on the other hand, insists it will never give up its right to enrich uranium and produce nuclear fuel and has repeatedly offered [though Condi insists not] to provide guarantees that its nuclear program won't be diverted toward weapons.
And here is where it gets good: Indonesia and Qatar wanted the Security Council to make a direct case for making the middle east WMD free, but that would have certain implications for Israel [especially since Olmert's "slip" that Israel has nuclear weapons though they've never acknowledged this. So, a reference has been inserted into the language of the past resolution from the IAEA.
Christine, et al, You can find this information at Washington A.P.; A.P. Top Stories, Mcclatchy News; Press Democrat News Service, [and just about any major newspaper] and CSPAN coverage of House and Senate hearings with Condaleeza Rice. Have fun.
David -- Amy Goodman [DemocracyNow.Org - about 3 weeks or so ago] did a fascinating interview with Wes Clarke on Condi's hit list of countries. Iran was supposed to be last.
Why is it that they (Iran) is processing uranium to weapons grade material. If it was for power generation, they could purchase the fuel in the world market at a fraction of the cost that it takes to make it themselves. Power plant grade material is easy enough to come by, but, weapons grade material is another matter altogether!
Imagine if you will that Iran does manage to acquire nukes. What would you think should be done then? They could hold the whole of the middle-east hostage or even threaten the oil and gas fields in the region! What do you think that would do for the world's enonomy? And what about Israel? They are our friends and allies and I for one do not think that it is acceptable to disregard the friendship. Or do you think we should just walk away from Israel? To turn our backs on our allies is akin to isolationism. Our country was not borne out of such a mold.
I for one am very concerned about allowing the clerics in Iran to have access to such weapons. In fact, if they did, I would hope that someone had brushed the dust off the battlefield tactical nuclear weapons!!! That's what it would take to stop them from holding the world hostage while they gained total control of the entire region.
So think this out. Do you honestly believe that Iran is going to develop a peaceful power producing capability while they sit on top of one of the worlds richest oil reserves? Don't be naive, be realistic while thinking about how they have conducted themselve in the past!!!