My questions: 1) Because it is the internet, does that made rudeness ok? 2) Why do we tolerate online what we wouldn’t in person? 3) Are you listening Gather?
For example, when a California woman recently gave birth to a healthy baby just two days after learning she was pregnant, the sudden change to her life was challenging enough. What April Branum definitely didn't need (or deserve) was the nasty Internet/blog comments:
"A pig is a pig," or she should "go on the show 'The Biggest Loser.'"
It is another example of how the anonymity of the Internet has made public a person's thoughts.
Such incidents (and many that have occurred right here on Gather) raise the questions: Is there anything to be done about it? Or is a decline in civil discourse simply the price that we pay for the advance of technology?
"The Internet really amplifies everything," says Jeffrey Cole, of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California. "We have a lot of opinions out there. All of a sudden there's a place we can go to share them." Add to that the freedom that anonymity provides, he says, and it "can lead to a rowdy Wild West situation, with no one to filter it." (This is where the trolls come in. Their intentions are to disrupt and insult).
"It's all things said reflexively, without thinking," says Cole, who tracks the political and social impact of the Internet as director of Annenberg's Center for the Digital Future.
"My guess is that if you went back to these people, a lot of them would have second thoughts." And if you asked them to add their name, as in a traditional letter to the editor? "They'd be embarrassed."
There are examples everywhere of anonymous comments that cause harm. On even the most innocuous sites — a parenting message board, for example — anonymity often leads to the type of response that would hardly be likely if names were attached. (Sound familiar to anyone here on Gather?)
"People post insults on here left and right," one person wrote Monday on the New York edition of urbanbaby.com, a networking site for new mothers. "It seems the common word these posts have is Fat. Just because someone is overweight, fat, thick whatever you call us, doesn't mean we are ugly, lazy or insecure ... So stop the childish remarks."
News organizations, struggling to find ways to keep their readers involved in an increasingly digital and interactive world, are trying to strike the right balance.
Branum's case fueled debate at the Orange County Register, whose Web site had only recently added a public comment section after news stories. OCRegister.com deputy editor Jeff Light says the site has modified its message board, only six weeks old, in response to staff concerns about inappropriate posts. Now, among other changes, language is more specific about what the site expects from those who post, and how a comment can be deleted. (Anyone paying attention, Gather??)
Yahoo News took down its message boards completely in December, with the goal of finding a new system that doesn't let a small group of vocal users dominate the discourse. (Hmmmmmm……)
"Our hope is to raise the value of the conversation," says Yahoo spokesman Brian Nelson. Harm can also be much greater when people are singled out by name; such attacks can hurt someone's career or home life.
What do we want for Gather?
Adapted from yahoo/JOCELYN NOVECK, AP National Writer


Comments: 66
Gather should be such a collective place to share, meet new friends, and to have fun...
Great article....
They never seem to stick to the subject and are usually racially charged.
Maybe they need to start a chat group for people who would love nothing more than to discuss how ignorant, intolerant and racial they are.
On the other hand, I also sense that many are posting the heated arguments,too ignite exactly that. They start out innocent but tend to jump in when its gets good and heated.
My two cents: I think the person who posts the article has a responsibility to keep discussion on track and too ignore the culprits who try to turn it into a B#$@# fest.
Who is too blame ?
I have sent a letter to Tom and Maryanne explaining my reasons for boycotting Gather tomorrow. I will be posting an article tonight.
Thank you, Kathleen. Your piranha article was right on the money.
Randy, I appreciate you weighing in. You more than just about anyone has experienced the trolls firsthand.
Mel, I am sorry to see you have jumped on the boycott bandwagon.
Avoidance is fine for some, Larry. But what isn't fine are the trolls that try to intimidate and harrass certain gather members that either won't speak up or do it in such a manner that it makes the trolls look like they are in the "right".
Jennifer- that is a clear definition of a troll: someone who posts inflammatory articles to provoke.
Exactly, Lynn. I couldn't have said it better myself ;)
Thank you, Deb.
Bongo, if your (not YOU per se) name showed up when you commented on an article, would you say rude and hurtful things? I am sure that the majority of rude behavior would stop if this were the case.
I have seen the few that are to be involved in the boycott, Mel. The majority of them are the ones the incite the gather "war" IMO. I am sure most people will be happy certain members will be gone, if only for just one day. I probably won't have as many DB 1's with some of them gone tomorrow (unless the sock puppets show up).
We often start out innocent but some people just know how too pull you in.
I guess the trick is knowing when to stop.
I try to do that too, Shawnee.
Jennifer, great point. It's not always easy to know when to stop.
Michael, you raise excellent points. When talking about topics that are controversial (abortion for example), I agree that civil discourse is possible. I don't want everyone to agree with me, certainly. But we need to agree to disagree. For example, one of my connections is a conservative Mormon. I disagree with nearly every article he writes. However, we always manage to do it without my insulting his age, stance, etc.
Thank you for weighing in.
Love the moniker BTW.
Great article, BTW.
rated 10.
Marilyn
If there were some real content standards there would be a lot less irritation IMO, but alas this is not to be. It seems there is more interest in what tags people use versus the actual content or lack thereof. Rather ironic and a tad pathertic...
let's not forget the endless stream of other crap that they take no issue with. Plagiarize, post junk from email, etc..no worries..it doesn't take any creativity, integrity or interest in generating original content for Gather. This IMO is where the rubber hits the road. Many are simply not willing to help curb this activity, but rather wholeheartedly embrace it instead.
My name is on my comments and posts - I can't easily hide behind a keyboard.
Yes Gather has much potential, but when people give pats on the back to the those who do this it doesn't say much for Gather and the word "integrity" whatsoever. I don't know about the rest of you, but if the choice is to support cut and paste artists, plagiarists and the laziest here, I would prefer to side with those who bitched the loudest. What they have to say might not always be nice, but at least it is some effort towards the good and not the same old shit you see everywhere else on the Internet. It is that same old shit that drives people nuts and creates a divisive atmosphere. It also one of the things that stops us from being a real online community that shares some set of standards for content. A bunch of people posting rehashed crap from all over the Internet, does not a community make.
I am sure if Gather started charging instead of rewarding us, many of the members here would leave.
I guess that means that those who hate Gather, but can't leave, are true Gatherholics. lol
Your claim that people hate Gather is a false one.
I don't really think it can be stopped, and it is sometimes hard to ignore these people, but as with children throwing tantrums, sometimes that would be the best response.
I don't mind email forwards or cut and paste as long as credit is given IF KNOWN. For example, if I saw one of my recipes or pics on the net, I would just hope I would be given credit. If not, oh well. It's the internet, right?
June, if Gather charged, I would leave.
Jody: are you talking about me specifically with my name changes?????? If not, then what are you talking about? I am not sure I follow your line of thought completely.
I don't hide either, J. I use my real name.
Actually, Jody, a specific member of the boycott gang admitted that she goes to certain content and gives them all ones. I suppose you can respect she was honest about it....
Travis, I do agree with you on certain matters (content requirements being clearly outlined), but I cannot agree with tactics that border on hypocritical.
The fact is, some things are just plain WRONG and unacceptable. Plagiarism is WRONG. Lying about others is wrong. Writing nasty poems about others and then deleting the evidence of it and denying it ever happened, is wrong. Repeatedly rating others with low numbers out of spite is just plain wrong. Inappropriately flagging articles just so that they are taken out of the readership of the group, because you don't like the author, is just plain wrong.
These are just some of the things I've seen happening since I've been here, but those who speak out against this type of thing are the ones who are considered the trouble makers?
Having Terms of Service that only pertain to certain individuals and others are rewarded for violating them- IS JUST PLAIN WRONG. Speaking up about this type of injustice is, in my opinion, the right thing to do, for me. I don't appreciate being labeled in some way such as this because I choose to stand up for what is right:
"I have seen the few that are to be involved in the boycott, Mel. The majority of them are the ones the incite the gather "war" IMO. I am sure most people will be happy certain members will be gone, if only for just one day. I probably won't have as many DB 1's with some of them gone tomorrow (unless the sock puppets show up). "
There is nothing wrong with calling someone on lying or stealing the work of others. But, that is what is happening here. The people who are "wrong" are supposedly the ones who are trying to do what is right and they are the ones who are being punished, while the perpetrators of all of this kind of nastiness become martyrs.
For me, it's deja vu all over again. Been there, done that.
Excellent point, Steve.
Thanks, AndyB.
Shannon..no one has to be a serious writer IMO, but being original goes a long way don't you think? You also claim that Randy, AKA Douche Bag White Knight of Gather has had to deal with trolls, yet he has some of the most trollish activity here on Gather. How does that work? You understand that baiting people and then deleting all that is trolling? You understand that posting articles that pretend to show some concern for Gather one moment and plagiarizing the next can and is considered trolling right? It is passive/aggressive behavior and something I for one cannot stand in RL or on online forums. I have seen it many many times, but that doesn't mean I need to put up with it. Animosity towards that kind of behavior may come in many forms, but it isn't being a troll.
Every single thing that is posted can be traced back to one particular computer, if not necessarily to a specific user - and not just when it posted, but potentially for years afterwards.
See you Friday.
It's like being on a play ground with a bunch of spoiled brats yelling, "Do it my way!"
It would be funny if it weren't so disruptive, and if people weren't getting hurt.
I have connections, friends, and people I respect on both sides. I guarantee you one thing not one of them is a plagiarizing, professional victim!
BTW Jody, and Travis, AMEN!
Shannon, your article wasn't distinctive and it was easy for me to feel like I was being lumped into the group who is, in your eyes, "causing trouble" by the mere fact that I stepped up and stated that I would boycott Gather on Thursday. This goes directly to the heart of your article. You painted with a broad brush and caught me up into it. That kind of generalization is one of the dangers of communication in any form, including the internet. My beef with Gather is the way they allow real trouble makers to continue to violate the clearly stated terms of service AND retaliate against anyone who calls them on it and then sanction others for things that aren't even stated in the terms of service.
It would be nice if Gather was doing something about plagiarism. The fact is, they aren't and they actually reward those who have done it by putting their work on the front page! Talk about rewarding bad behavior!
"Although I would prefer that policing plagiarism be left up to gather mgmt., as all that it seems to have done is create a further rift."
You seem to want the rest of us to remain quiet if they choose not to police this. I can't. It's wrong and I'm one of those people who can't stand injustice such as this. And I won't just shut my mouth and pretend it isn't happening so that others can be more comfortable with the fact that they are doing so. Maybe if more people spoke up about this kind of thing instead of remaining silent in some misguided attempt to keep the peace, it would be very clear to those doing it that it won't be tolerated and they can't be comfortable hanging out and behaving in such a mannner. You also seem to be saying that the "rift" that comes out of calling these thieves out is somehow the fault of those doing the calling out and not the person doing the plagiarizing. Think about what you are saying. It isn't the criminal you are holding responsible for their activity, it's those who won't stand for it.
as opposed to writing entire articles?
why should they when some members have taken it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner. whats that old saying? 'let them kill each other and let God sort 'em out.'
Original? Is there such a thing anymore? Sure, plagiarizing a famous poem showed the utmost in bad taste, but gather took care of it. So why are certain people still whining about it? If you hate gather so much, go to all those other writing sites that are just "wonderful"! I don't think those of us that like to have a little fun are going anywhere. Not today, not tomorrow.
I respect your stance, Mel. Peace out.
Dawn: "I guarantee you one thing not one of them is a plagiarizing, professional victim!". One of those boycottees is working on professional victim status. And many of them post images that they didn't take. Smacks of hypocrisy to me.
I am not keeping quiet about plagiarism, Lisa, to keep the peace. I just have larger concerns, and where someone got their article from isn't one of them. It's gather's job to police, not mine. The rift that exists is largely due to a group of people that didn't appreciate what some of the newer members were offering (bzz, email forwards, recipes, etc.) when they joined. And they didn't join a "writing" site, but a place to share. In whatever form that is. Some people just can't get over the fact that gather is no longer what it was.
thats the part that irks me the most. people are bitching and complaining about the content and then turn around and publish the same thing that theyre bitching and complaining about. and the excuses! funny stuff! and when these "serious writers' call themselves publishing something of quality, the discussion that follows is never about the article. just two or three word compliments followed by the same bitching and complaining. i would have issues with my connections if i posted something that i thought was quality work and they did nothing but bash gather and rehash shit that happened two weeks ago.
Sometimes the posting email thing gets a little boring because so many people do it. I actually love the recipes because I'm a crappy cook and all. I came in on the Bzz tidal wave way back. I've noticed if I post an article whining about some Gather function I get more hits than if I try to write something creative. I may not be creative as others and I enjoy writing tidbits about real life.
I've long thought Gather could avoid some controversies by splitting into channels- no not the Gather channels. I'm disappointed in the essentials things (not the essentials writers) I'm disappointed Gather doesn't seperate areas. I'd love to see groups separated in the posting area by their focus. I'd love to be able to click on recipes and see all the recipe articles. As far as I can tell - other than tags which are random - Gather doesn't offer this.
I love Gather and all the points, but I don't like the fact they have slowed down. I like just about everyone on Gather. I think Jody makes a very valid point about the ones. The drive by one on family pictures happened to me a while back. Some people still occassionally do it to me, because I've noticed when some go up, they go back down the next day.
I've found lots of friends on Gather. I can't see myself leaving. I think there is room for improvement. Like many, I do grow discouraged when I put my heart into something and get three responses while someone who copies a joke gets 30. I've decided to stop rating emails forwards and copied jokes. I won't give them ones, but I won't give them 10's either. I rate recipes because often times people have created their own recipes and they have value just as anything else.
Oh well, at this point I'm rambling. I just want everyone to enjoy Gather and I want to enjoy everyone's writing.
Ramble on, Shelley. I am connected to just about everyone on this thread too, and hope to stay that way. I do not agree with all of the points raised, but I DO respect the people who posted them.
Beautiful comment, Brenda. Thank you for your input.
Nothing like excusing asshole-syndrome, Joe.
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Can't we all just get along?
Peace to all!
Thanks Esther.
I REALLY appreciate you guys commenting on this old post. It really took me for a nice long walk down memory lane.