Vote On Anti-Immigration Ordinances Uses Bilingual Ballots

The English only movement is a bit misguided. The fact is that while the current immigrants are speaking Spanish (some of them), their children learn and operate in English. It is impossible to be successful in this country and only speak Spanish or any other language than English. I have encountered many students over the years who speak Spanish at home but are eager to learn English so that they can participate in the American system. These second generations are not unlike the second generations of previous immigrant groups. It is a falsehood to suggest that printing ballots in both languages somehow undermines the USA.

It is indeed an ironic twist. I read this and thought here we go again. It has been my experience that immigrants either come here speaking some English or learn it very quickly after moving here.

English only movement is a bit misguided

Why has nobody ever thought to check the immigration status of employees. The whole illegal immigrant problem would essentially go away if employers got some penalty for employing illegals. But then that would remove the advantage of illegals to the wealthy eh? Can't have that. I mean how would you know you were wealthy if you couldn't lord it over a little cheap labor now and then!

When in Rome... This is America. You're more than welcome to observe your heritage and use your native tongue, but our language is English. Learn to use what your host country uses. I'm not going to learn your language, so if we run across paths somewhere down the line, hope you can communicate with me or you're S.O.L. and I'm walking away.

Rob Appell, what do you mean by? " This is America. You're more than welcome to observe your heritage and use your native tongue, but our language is English. Learn to use what your host country uses." I am 100 percent American as are my parents and grandparents. It is simply the fact that I am one of the fortunate, those who have the capability to speak more than one language. It is hard to say whether English or Spanish is my dominant language. For as long as I can remember I have been able to converse and understand both languages. I can easily and effortlessly switch from one to the other without skipping a beat and I hope to do the same with Italian once I become proficient in my grandmother's first language and I don't have to emphasize my grandmother is already proficient in Italian, English and Spanish.

See the vibes that you send out to other people Juan? Why do you suppose it keeps coming out this way? That you have to keep coming-out with the "I am 100 percent American as are my parents and grandparents." Evidently your heart isn't 100% American otherwise people wouldn't mistake your heritage. As far as the bi-lingual ballots, thats being racist against the other 57 languages thats spoken in this country.

Bob yes I am an American but I will not hide the fact that I also have the privilege of having a little spice in my ancestry, because what is life without a little flavor. I will never bow down to those that wish to turn me and the rest of Americans like me into a bland and a homogonous double ganger or clone of white suburbia and will never allow those same individuals to mold me into what they consider a real American should look like or behave.

So Juan, Are you telling me that you're Hispanic 1st. and American 2nd.? Also, I don't know what a "homogonous double ganger" is, could you please enlighten me?

I am American of Hispanic decent. As for the phrase "homogonous doppel ganger" it means an exact duplicate with no room for decent or originality. Homogonous "Pertaining to monoclinous flowers that do not differ in the relative length of stamens and pistils. Doppelganger "a ghostly counterpart of a living person"

Juan, Thanks for clearing that up for me. I know what a doppleganger is, but I thought a double ganger was something that might of had something to do with gang bangers. Sorry for the confusion.
So Juan, You're an American first and a Hispanic second?

The fact still remains, this is The USA, English is OUR language, and as was stated by Bob, if we were to do this properly, we would have to print these ballots in EVERY other language. Now that would be quite time consuming, expensive and another burden on the AMERICAN tax payer.
It's bad enough we have to have everything in our daily lives shoved down our throats in Spanish, we should NOT be putting ANY ballots in any language BUT ENGLISH. If someone wishes to vote, then they need to read, speak, and understand english well enough to do so, if they do not then they should not be entitled to vote. How the hell can you make an informed choice if 90% of the political information is in english, and the person cannot fully understand all that is being said or printed? I certainly will NOT advocate an additional expense to tax payers for getting all this information out in other languages, and if we have to put it into spanish, then what makes that language more priveledged than the rest. ENGLISH ONLY, or you don't vote!!!
If you are a legal immigrant and have earned the right to vote, then you have been here long enough to learn the language.

Anne you are right. When I was a small boy and in kindergarten, there was one Anglo teacher that would smack us every time she overheard us speaking in Spanish and in the 1950s in Hawaii children were punish if they spoke Hawaiian.
Maybe we can make Spanish illegal like they made Haeaiian illegal before it won statehood. Perhaps we can create a language police force like the one in Canada and arrest everyone who is overheard speaking Spanish or is caught writing the Spanish language. A fine could be issued if some proprietor advertises his product in Spanish.
Perhaps then Anne you and your anti-Spanish brethren can finally feel at ease and not fear the extinction of English in this great diverse land of our.

Juan, you and I debated this before. I am of FRENCH decent, so why should I not expect that YOU and all your spanish speaking friends and family learn french, and pay for everything to be published in french for me. Are we less important than you and your spanish speaking "brethren". Not that it matters, I only speak english now anyway, and if I were to learn another language besides french, it would be the language of my choice and BY my choice. NOT because some nationality deems it their right to demand it!!!
Oh, and like you, when I was in grade school, I was punished, usually with a ruler across my knuckles, for speaking french in school. Most times I would begin speaking in english, and end up in french, but not deliberatly or out of disrespect, but simply because that's what was spoken at home. What made it worse is that the teacher would send me home with a note for my parents explaining why I was disciplined, and my father (who spoke french and english at home) would punish me for doing it.
I am not anti-anything, I am FOR english. I didn't say anything about how people communicate amongst each other, or outlawing anything, I simply stated that this is the USA, the national language is english, and if people want to vote etc. then they should be REQUIRED to do so in english. What makes spanish more important than any of the other languages brought here by other immigrants? What makes you so special? You are being as singleminded as you accuse the rest of us of being.

You want to be limited to one language that is your right and I will fight for your right to refuse to learn any other language. However I fill it totally against what America to stands for and it just doesn't seat well with me for individuals like you and your fellow anti-Spanish advocates to derogate those Spanish-speaking people that don't speak English, whether through a conscious choice or some other reason. In Canada they do have a language police, who monitors and makes sure everything is both in English and French. But I guess the Canadians are a little more enlightened than we Americans are.

I think that Russian, Chinese,Spanish,Japanese, and 53 other languages that are spoken in the U.S. have just as much right as the Mexican language that is spoken in the U.S. If your going to add Mexican language to help those unfortunate people that hate their own country get by in this country, then it's just plain racist not to add all the other languages that are here.

This is the US, we speak ENGLISH in the US. The MAJORITY in this country do not want to pay for tutors, translators, bilingual forms/signs. We do not want to Press #2 for Spanish.

Learn the language just like every other group of immigrants that came to this country had to do.

Soon, they will have no choice as city after city throughout this country are passing English only in their towns.

Juan, you certainly have a double standard!!! I am anti-spanish because I don't want to be ORDERED to speak it in my own country, and I "am refusing" to learn another language because I don't feel that I need to learn that particular language.

What the hell does that make all those NON-ENGLISH speaking Mexicans, that are TELLING us we MUST learn spanish in OUR country? Why don't you say the same to them about SPEAKING ENGLISH!! Some of your Spanish speaking "bretheren" REFUSE to speak english, but I guess that must be okay, because they are Hispanic, and that doesn't make them anti-American, it makes us anti-Hispanic.
We speak english in this country, but everyone has the right to learn and use a second, third or 10 other languages if they so choose. But to conduct business and participate in the voting etc. ENGLISH is the language that should used.

There's some reasoning behind the let-us-speak-Mexican crowd. If English is not the primary language of this country, then it will be easier to hide in plain view as an illegal immigrant. They will be able to blend in without bringing attention to themselves.

To ignore the fact that English is the predominant language spoken here, curtails one's assimilation. Why would one want to make one's life, and that of their family's an even harder existence? If they don't understand English in their jobs, schools, churches, etc., how frustrating it must be. They chose to come here, this is their host country...it is their responsibility to learn the prevailing language, not the other way around. I am a descendant of immigrants of the legal variety. They quickly assimilated...they had enough sense to know that their lot in life would be so much easier to do so. They spoke their native language at home, but in public communicated in English the best they could. We were taught to embrace our culture, but were also taught that this country was to be honored, first and foremost...they made no special demands from this government, they obeyed its laws, they persevered. They and others like them, are they type of immigrants that became the solid backbone of this country. Their intent was to complement this country, not to turn it into something they left behind.

Which ever side you stand on the "English only debate, it is really a moot point. In reality like Brenda stated, city after city is passing English only laws and ordinances. It is only a matter of time before the powers that be; force their Representatives in Washington to make English only a Federal mandate, thus outlawing the use by and in any and every governmental entity. This will help ease the minds of everyone who is afraid of the English language becoming extinct in the U.S. Lets start by restricting every Federal Employee from using any Spanish words while in a Governmental building. If they break this rule they can be reprimanded and written up.

Juan, sometimes YOU are so prejudiced that you cannot see or understand LOGIC!! Once again you make an unintelligent statement about "our fear of" //the English language becoming extinct in the U.S// when that is not and never has been the intent. What we are saying is that these people are coming here "for a better life", they want to live in OUR country, they are coming to US, with a very many doing so UNINVITED, what right do they have to demand that WE accomodate them? This is NOT about reprimanding, policing or arresting ANYONE. This is about RESPECTING and obeying the traditions, laws and LANGUAGE of the land THEY CHOSE to come to.
You find it necessary to twist what anyone posts here into a racist "xenophobic" attitude, just what you are always accusing Larry of.
What right do they or you have to expect us to pile on additional financial burdens to accomodate THEIR refusal to learn OUR language. Why do you not tell these people that it is their RESPONSIBILITY to learn ENGLISH?
And one more thing, you still have not addressed the fact that every other immigrant language is not being covered by YOUR racist demands. Are you also ready to accomodate those peoples "RIGHT TO EXPECT" we accomodate them as well? Or do your reasonings only apply to Hispanics, and more specifically Mexicans?

Anne:

You know that Juan---and others like him----are only worried about Hispanics/Latinos and Spanish specifically. They could care less about any other group of people.

They feel that they are owed/entitled for some reason. They feel that it is up to us to accommodate them for some reason. Well, they are getting a real wake-up call, as more and more US citizens throughout this country are saying ENOUGH.

To put it bluntly, who the *ell do these people think that they are?

Again, this is the US. We speak ENGLISH in the US----not Spanish, German, Chinese, etc. It is up to them to learn English, not for us to learn Spanish. The MAJORITY of US tax payers no longer want to pay to accommodate their language in any way. Stores are even beginning to take down Spanish signs due to pressure from their customers. Soon, cities will begin to receive pressure from citizens to end the ESL classes.

Here is another one that gets me-----we want to learn English but they won't provide the classes to us. Here is actually what they are saying----we will learn English, if US tax payers pay for it. There are plenty of English classes available throughout the country, but they do not want to pay for them.

Mitch:

Yes, you are right, in order to take the citizenship test, an individual must know how to read, speak, and understand English. That is why it is obvious that the majority of those who do not speak the language---or want to learn the language---are illegal invaders and anchor babies.

Bob:

That is a good point.

Cudzuqueen:

You are right, all other immigrant groups that have come to this country from throughout the world have learned the language and assimmilated into the melting pot.

Brenda M commented Mar 20, 2007 Anne: "You know that Juan---and others like him----are only worried about Hispanics/Latinos and Spanish specifically. They could care less about any other group of people. "

Brenda, whether you believe me or not, in this you are definitely 100 percent incorrect. I would fight with the same passion against this current animosity being showed towards Latin immigrants and illegals if it were applied towards any other group regardless of their color. It just so happens that the current environment of hatred is being vented against Hispanic Americans and Latinos regardless of their citizenship or legal status. If I was walking down the street and saw a group of Hispanics brow beating you and shouting against your culture and demanding the demise of your language, I would give the same energy in defending you as I do standing up against the degrading of certain Latinos simply because they don't speak English or have chosen to enter our country illegally.

Anne G. commented Mar 19, 2007 "Oh, and like you, when I was in grade school, I was punished, usually with a ruler across my knuckles, for speaking french in school."

Anne I guess we do have something in common, but I guess that is where it ends. I have chosen not to be ashamed of my ancestry and their mother language, Spanish. I will do and say everything I can to try to insure that other Latinos are not made to fear ridicule or expect violence when speaking Spanish. I get it, you and your like minded colleagues do not want Spanish to be used in any governmental documents; you are against state funded interrupters, state funded English as a Second Language classes, you are against bi-lingual voting materials, you are against anyone asking or expecting you to go out of your way to learn any language other than English and you are totally for English only laws that are now being passed throughout the less tolerant cities of the U.S. Did I miss something?

As for me being a racist, Hmm let me think. When was the last time I looked down at someone who didn't speak English or Spanish? When did I advocate violence or side with those that advocate violence against anyone who is not Latino? Other than a few sarcastic remarks I have made in retort to Larry's rants, when was the last time I said, "All persons of European decent are worthless, breed like rabbits, are rapist, murders, thieves and welfare cheats? Since the answer is never, I can see why Anne would consider me a racist.

Juan, you have proven this by the comments made to all of us who are opposed to illegals and catering to ANY race. As you yourself said, at this time all the debate revolves around hispanics. If there were any other nationality standing and making the same threats and demands as the hispanics I would be telling them the same thing.
There is more to being a racist than making the types of comments made here by Larry, and you have shown your racist attitude toward whites who will no longer accept responsibility, financial or otherwise, for a group of people who DON'T belong here. You have not taken your stand only in defense of Latinos who are Citizens or those who came here legally and abide by our laws, you have taken your stand for ALL latinos including those who have NO RIGHT to DEMAND or EXPECT anything, those who are bleeding American Taxpayers dry!! You are defending all Latinos against and grouping together ALL non-latinos who do not see it your way. That's Racist!!
Once again you still didn't get it right // you are against anyone asking or expecting you to go out of your way to learn any language other than English//
NOT SO
I never said I wasn't willing to go out of my way to learn any other language, I SAID I wouldn't be told WHAT language I should or will learn. Neither would I DEMAND that someone else pay for the classes for me to learn that language!!!
You still have not shown justification for your expectation that Spanish be singled out for priveledge, above any others. Well?!

Martin Niemoller:
"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."

I will always stand up and protest against the hate filled rhetoric of individuals like Crazy Larry and those that embrace his violence advocating ideas as well as their poor attempts to hide behind the Flag as they use the smoke screen of illegal immigration as a way to advance their Xenophobic agenda.

Anne G. commented Mar 20, 2007 "You still have not shown justification for your expectation that Spanish be singled out for privileged, above any others. Well?!"

Ok I'll bite. When did I state Spanish should be spoken by everyone or it should replace English as the dominate language in the U.S. Well?!

Anne G. commented Mar 20, 2007 "You have not taken your stand only in defense of Latinos who are Citizens or those who came here legally and abide by our laws, you have taken your stand for ALL latinos"
Anne you are correct in at least this point. I do not discriminate against someone because of his or her legal status, ability or inability to speak English. I know there are people in this country who have no compassion for any one who is not an American. I am not one of those persons, nor am I a man who will see a drowning man and ask him to prove his citizenship before I throw him a life preserver. As for taking a stand for all Latinos there is a big difference between that and Crazy Larry spewing his words of "We will revolt and kill all Hispanics?

This is another of racist Juan's rants advocating for illegal immigrants. Who's paying you Juan ?

Juan wrote: "If I was walking down the street and saw a group of Hispanics brow beating you and shouting against your culture and demanding the demise of your language, I would give the same energy in defending you......."

You will have ample opportunities on May 1st to prove that statement. I doubt you would, but who knows, maybe we'll see you on YouTube!!!

Don't you worry Juan , what American citizens want matters not to our "elected" representatives .
This new law will be challenged by the ACLU (gotta love em ) and struck down.

Juan, YOU are constantly accusing us of being fearful of our English becoming extinct.
As for // I do not discriminate against someone because of his or her legal status, ability or inability to speak English.//
Well, someone WITH legal status has the rights we have, an ILLEGAL has NO RIGHTS by our laws!!! I will NOT put up with an illegal telling us what WE OWE them, nor will I sit back and allow them to bring about the political changes THEY DEMAND. This is OUR country, and WE WILL DECIDE!!!
to some degree Don is right, our "elected" officials will do what will line their pockets most, but as this battle rages on, more and more Americans are becoming fed up with what is happening, and they will climb aboard this train, and the illegals will have no choice but to return to their own country and fix THEIR country, instead of TELLING us what we have to do to fix OUR country for THEM!!!
I still want to know why these people have the nerve to come here illegally and tell us what we MUST do to GIVE them the American dream, but they won't stand and fight to bring about the changes in their OWN COUNTRY!!! Instead of coming to a totally foreign place, and a different culture, why don't they protest and riot like this in Mexico and make their demands where they have the right to make those demands, from a government that DOES owe it to them?

Lawmakers send bill making Idaho's official language English to governor
Otter has said he will sign legislation that critics call unnecessary, exclusionary

By Shawna Gamache - Idaho Statesman
Edition Date: 03/20/07

"A bill to make English Idaho's official language passed the House on Monday.
The bill dictates that all official government business should be done in English, with certain exceptions for such things as education, public health and public safety.

The bill has already passed the Senate and awaits only the approval of Gov. Butch Otter, who has said he will sign it. All Treasure Valley Democrats and Caldwell Republican Bob Ring voted against the bill.

Proponents of the bill said it would save governments time and money and allow for clearer communication. The bill's sponsor, Rep. Dell Reybould, R-Rexburg, said the bill "extends the hand of friendship to people who aren't speaking English."

Opponents said the bill was "exclusionary" and "unnecessary." Rep. Nicole LeFavour, D-Boise, said she had hoped more lawmakers would vote against the bill to make a statement against a recent flier distributed by College Republicans at Boise State University. The flier, promoting a speech by former Canyon County Commissioner Robert Vasquez, offers "a food stamp drawing" that requires climbing through a hole in a fence and offering fake ID for a shot at winning dinner at a local Mexican restaurant.

"I think this is really awful timing," LeFavour said. "A lot of the members here were appalled by (the flier). They were obviously concerned, but not concerned enough to send a message."

Other lawmakers said they hoped the bill would encourage immigrants to learn English sooner upon arrival in Idaho.

"My parents made the same commitment that this bill states," said Rep. John Vander Woude, R-Nampa, whose parents emigrated from Holland to the U.S. "We are not trying to bar foreign languages from the classroom or from the home."

http://www.idahostatesman.com/244/story/76296.html

Senate backs requiring English competency for graduation

written by: Brett Alles , Photojournalist created: 3/20/2007 1:17:56 PM
Last updated: 3/21/2007 7:19:34 AM

9News, Colorado

"DENVER (AP) - High school students would have to show they are competent in English in order to graduate under a measure given initial backing by the Senate Tuesday.


It would be up to each school district to define what competency is and how to measure it. All school districts and charter schools would have to approve a policy by 2012.

Sponsor Sen. Chris Romer (D-Denver) said he wants to make sure their graduates can perform and be safe on the job and in daily life by speaking and understanding English.

"This bill is very simple in its concepts. What this bill says is if you're going to get a diploma in Colorado, you need to be competent in the English language," said Romer, the sponsor of Senate Bill 73. "The public is really yearning for a thoughtful conversation about assimilation, not just immigration."

Romer said English competency isn't as high a standard as English proficiency, under the definitions of the Colorado Student Assessment Program (CSAP), the standardized tests given to students each year.

Sen. Ron Tupa (D-Boulder) said he wished the bill set a minimum standard for competency. Romer said schools should be given some time to experiment with what works best.

"If we're going to pass public policy, we need to fund our mandates," said Sen. Sue Windels (D-Arvada), the head of the Senate Education Committee. "This is going to end up being just another unfunded mandate on school districts."

The bill is scheduled for final approval later this week."

http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=66680

Timothy V. commented Mar 20, 2007 "This is another of racist Juan's rants advocating for illegal immigrants. Who's paying you Juan ? "

Ok Timothy which exact word or phrase I made do you consider as being racist? Perhaps it's "I do not discriminate against someone because of his or her legal status, ability or inability to speak English." or maybe it's

Anne G. commented Mar 20, 2007 "I still want to know why these people have the nerve to come here illegally and tell us what we MUST do to GIVE them the American dream, but they won't stand and fight to bring about the changes in their OWN COUNTRY!!! Instead of coming to a totally foreign place, and a different culture, why don't they protest and riot like this in Mexico and make their demands where they have the right to make those demands, from a government that DOES owe it to them?"

Point of fact Anne, there are a great number of illegal immigrants, or illegal aliens as some have chosen to call them, who have and are now actively fighting and defending the U.S. and all of its' citizens, regardless of their feelings for them, in our Arm Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Proponents of the bill said it would save governments time and money and allow for clearer communication. The bill's sponsor, Rep. Dell Reybould, R-Rexburg, said the bill "extends the hand of friendship to people who aren't speaking English."

Clearer communication for whom?

Juan wrote: //Point of fact Anne, there are a great number of illegal immigrants, or illegal aliens as some have chosen to call them, who have and are now actively fighting and defending the U.S. and all of its' citizens, regardless of their feelings for them, in our Arm Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.//

First off, I have no idea where you see this having anything to do with what I stated. That still does not explain why they think they should come to our country and make demands on us that they WON'T and DON'T make on their own government.

Second: I highly doubt that there are ILLEGALS serving in OUR military. It's not quite as easy to join the military as it is to get our benefits. Proof? and I don't mean just someones opinion.

Actually they are and they are being given citizenship for their service.

Juan wrote: "Point of fact Anne, there are a great number of illegal immigrants, or illegal aliens as some have chosen to call them, who have and are now actively fighting and defending the U.S. and all of its' citizens, regardless of their feelings for them, in our Arm Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Currently there are 37,500 legal permanent residents representing over 200 countries serving in our armed forces, and my heartfelt thanks goes out to them.
Legal permanent residents are allowed to serve in the armed forces, if they present a green card. From the day of their enlistment, their citizenship applications are eligible to process at an expedited rate. The only illegal alien enlistment information I could find all involved document fraud and ID theft. The military will investigate and discharge dishonorably if thats the case. What actually are these "great numbers you speak of Juan? Can you direct me to some hard figures from a reliable source (meaning something without the word progressive in the web address)?

Juan......The entire theme of your articles speaks for itself. I don't have to prove anything, all one has to do is read your rants.

"Point of fact Anne, there are a great number of illegal immigrants, or illegal aliens as some have chosen to call them, who have and are now actively fighting and defending the U.S. and all of its' citizens, regardless of their feelings for them, in our Arm Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.A"

Where's your proof to substantiate this claim? I prefer to call them illegal entrants...
They have come into this country without the proper documentation in hand, and they have the nerve to make unwarranted demands on their host country...excuse me...seeing as we are the host, we get to call the shots, not the other way around. If there is something here they don't like about this country, they know where the door is…they can and should leave. Assimilation is the key...why are they so adamant to resist doing so? Is it out of pure stupidity or flat-out laziness? Which is it Juan? One can still embrace their culture, while learning the prevailing language of a host country…their resistance makes not one tap of sense, nor do their demands…not one.

Hey Juan, we're still waiting for your proof. Where did you go?

Great job Anne and Brenda and anybody else for exposing this pro-illegal immigration mess of supporting a divided country of Spanish speaking citizens and English speaking citizens. Brenda, you are always very outspoken and articulate on these illegal immigration issues.

Juan, first of all change your misleading title from anti-immigration to anti-illegal immigration. Second of all, there is nothing racist and there is nothing anti-Hispanic about trying to keep English the nationally spoken language in the country. A country that doesn't require its citizens to speak fluent English and that won't defend its borders to its full potential will slowly become a very divided country. What is it about this that you don't understand?

I understand how you take pride in you culture and Hispanic background; but why do you have to be so prideful of your Mexican heritage that you feel it is the right of illegal Mexican immigrants to come here and openly and exclusively speak their Spanish language and further divide and annoy this country?

Kodi if I wish to speak Spanish openly and in public I will do so and no one can threaten me into feeling ashame for it.

Timothy V. commented Mar 21, 2007 Juan….the entire theme of your articles speaks for itself, I don't have to prove anything, all one has to do is read your rants.

I guess next time you ask me to prove a certain point of mind; I can just use your quote to proof my opinion and any facts I might use.

For those of you who want to help to fight the illegal invasion, please join this forum----it also has members from throughout the country.

http://www.saveourstate.org
Go to Forum>>>General Discussion

Juan, once again you are responding to a statement made by someone, but you have yet to provide us with the proof of ILLEGALS serving in Iran!!!

//I guess next time you ask me to prove a certain point of mind; I can just use your quote to proof my opinion and any facts I might use. //

You have not provided any proof or factual information. In this instance opinion isn't worth anything. You made a claim, and I would like to see you back it up.

Anne:

He isn't providing the proof, because he knows that it is BS. It just so happens that someone else posted an article/story about "immigrants" serving in our military, NOT ILLEGALS. The person who posted the article is in the military. He said that immigrants who have green cards, speak English, (and there were other requirements as well, but I can't remember)---can join our military and can apply for an expedited path to citizenship. However, he said that there are NO ILLEGALS in our military.

Here is the article/thread:

Noncitizen soldiers - Mercenaries or Patriots? By: Army Man

Brenda, I too read the article, but Juan evidently did not, or once again, he was twisting the story to suit his puposes. Maybe he didn't think we do enough research on our own to find it.

Illegals fly under the radar, bad mouth and hate us, but they are going to walz into a recruiting office and sign up to defend this country. God I have a stomach ache from laughing so hard.
Juan, if your illegals are burning and desecrating our flag, and trashing our country because we won't give in to their demands (that they are NOT entitled to) why do you think they would be defending this country in a war, and why would you be so foolish as think we would believe you when you said it?

Juan, where have you disappeared to again. We called you on something again so it's time to move on, rather than provide the proof!!!

Anne I was out of town. I took off to San Antonio and on the way back I took a detour through Eagle Pass and did a little gambling at the Casino located there. As for the information you keep asking me for about illegals serving in the military,

Alfred Rascon, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, won the Medal of Honor for extraordinary heroism during the Vietnam War and later became a U.S. citizen and this while President Bush used his father's money and influence to hide in the National Guard.
According to a published report about 69,300 foreign-born men and women serve in the U.S. armed forces, roughly 5 percent of the total active-duty force, according to the most recent data. Of those, 43 percent – 29,800 – are not U.S. citizens. The Pentagon says more than 100 immigrant soldiers have died in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. The report also goes on to note that in the immediate aftermath of an order by President Bush in 2002, waiving the three-year waiting period for naturalization for non-citizens in the military, a small number of illegal immigrants enlisted into the U.S. Arm Forces.
The report than goes on to mention that most recently in January the Legislation passed legislation that in potentially changed the landscape of non-citizens in the military. The new law by Congress provided uniformity for the five military services, allowing the various service secretaries to waive the requirement that non-citizen recruits hold lawful permanent resident immigration status if "such enlistment is vital to the national interest."
Even thou officially the Arm Services do not actively recruit or allow illegal immigrants into their ranks, it would be naïve and unjust to deny their existence.

I have not been able to find this report your are talking about. I am well aware of LEGAL immigrants serving in our military, PRIOR to becoming naturalized, NOT illegals.
Everything you have posted still only confirms what we have said, illegals do not serve in our military. With the total disdain these people show for us and our country, you are not going to convine people that they would serve in our military if they came over the border illegally. Certainly not for this war.
As to the Vietnam Vet you spoke of, that was over 30 years ago, and a different world. Illegal immigration was not what it is today, and slipping through the cracks was most likely not too difficult.

//waiving the three-year waiting period for naturalization for non-citizens in the military, a small number of illegal immigrants enlisted into the U.S. Arm Forces. //

The three year waiting period did not apply to illegals. They would not be elligable for naturalization.

Can you post a url for this report you spoke of?

Juan, Check out this Url:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01Ly46zaZC8
Doesn't this bother you at all to see the disdain that these people have for the United States of America? This happened in L.A. this past weekend. Can't you see that these people are not your people? You're an American Juan, stand up for your country.

Crazy Larry your constant posting of threats of violence against any and all non-English speaking individuals is legendary. Again do not ask for details because you will be again proven for the idiot you really are.
If you believe those that you spew your vile hatred against will not stand up and fight for the ideals that the America stands for take a look at your mug shot showing your bruised face. I wish I knew the Hispanic that stood up to your racist rhetoric and kicked the shit out of you. I would take her out for dinner and drinks.

Larry (Cuckoo) French, why do you insist on making idiotic remarks if you know that will eventually be proven for the lies they really are

Larry French commented Apr 1, 2007 "Your Mexican crap means nothing to me Juan"
Apparently it must mean a great deal to you, because you are constantly trying to deny it. Like you're like-minded cohorts in Iran who had a whole convention of morons who continue to deny the Holocaust. Your fear and self-loathing are so pronounced it rules your small world. If have the need to hate and commit violence against anyone, just to make you a feel a little more important than you really are.

One more thing, you still haven't said what was the name of the Latina who kicked your ass. Like I said I want to know so I can take her out for dinner and a congratulatation drink.

Larry why is it every time one of your comments is proven to be false you always revert to your old standby of mimicking the words you heard your father repeat "reconquista". Don't you have words of your own? How about you stop parroting everything you see on the extremist sites and start making rational and well thought out statements using your own words and ideas.

Larry French commented Apr 2, 2007 "Better head back home there amigo"

Larry why would I want to return to Oklahoma? I love Texas besides my new business is here.

So Mitch you agree I should return to Hollis Oklahoma?

Crazy (moronic hate filled, sorry excuse for a human being) Larry, you prove your real one race, xenophobic philosophies every time you make remarks like these. You must be an okie since you keep asking me to go back there.

Here's a definition you may want to learn. Hate: A sentiment appropriate to the occasion of another's superiority. Ambrose Bierce

Where is this so called hate for Americans?

Oh wait, I only see your hate for anyone who doesn't hate who you hate.

Who was talking about 'they'? I was talking about your attempts at a witty insult towards Juan. You called him an American hater, why don't you scroll up a bit and read your own ranting. As I said before, I can only see the hate and contempt you have for someone who doesn't stand up and shout "Kill them all!" Seems like this issue has become personal for you, have all the insults hurled at you finally hit a nerve?

One more time so your thick skull can absorb what I say. Because he doesn't stand up and say "I hate them too!", you say he's an American hater? From your statements on other threads, it appears you are trying to gather a mob. Stating that because other people did this to the flag or were violent with some other people, everyone else should get up and be violent back? Where the heck did you learn that violence solves these things, I understand there is a point at which anyone will fight back. But guess what, everyone has different levels of patience, your statements show to me that you have very little of that. Where is your proof otherwise? Where is your proof that what your picture shows was not deserved in the slightest?

Larry your proof is idiotic. You pick and choose certain bits and piece of crime and violence that can easily be attributed to any race and or ethnicity. How is it you did not voice your apposition to the incident in which a 16-year-old boy is beaten and sodomized while his attackers shout out anti immigrations slurs, all because he was seen kissing a white girl? How about your brother in arms, Daniel Schertz a reputed member of the White Knights from the Tennessee town of South Pittsburgh was indicted on charges of building a pipe bomb with the sole intention of killing Hispanics, whether they were citizen, legal or illegal. It did not make a difference to him.
As for tired old footage of flag burning, I can easily find footage and pics of the burning and desecration of Old Glory by extremist and hate groups where the members are white and so called real Americans.

http://video.freevideoblog.com/video/... This guy burns the U.S. flag and a copy of the constitution. Then there are the cases of Texas vs. Johnson, Spence vs. Washington both white Americans who burned the American flags.

Then there are your facts of drunk drivers killing innocent people. The stats show about three in every ten Americans (Americans) will be involved in an alcohol-related crash at some time in their lives. (NHTSA, 2001) Then there is the most recent statements by the organization MADD. "Drunk driving and underage drinking is not specific to one race, one culture, one income level, or one economic class."

Larry you should listen more when your betters tell you something. Stop posting idiotic statements and assertions, which can easily be proven to be false and misleading. Rational thinking is not your strong point.

Crazy Larry why do you wish to deny others of their human rights? Your hate so overwhelms your heart and blinds you to the truth you are willing follow those that advocate evil over the cliff of ignorance. "Do unto others" "those without sin, cast the first stone"

You haven't shown me the proof I asked for, I asked where the proof was that you had any patience to begin with? I also asked where is the proof that what the picture shows was not deserved otherwise? Any newpaper clippings of the incident? Any videos on youtube about it? Any police report pics? Of course feel free to blot out things like your address and name and such.

There you go again crazy larry, threatening violence against those that disagree with your twisted and extremist views. You constant use of buzzwords you gleamed from anti-immigration sites just betrays your lack of free will and independent thought. Perhaps when can state your anti-immigration and illegal immigrant rhetoric using your own words, then and only then I might just change my perception that you are really the poor little boy who got his ass kicked because of his loud mouth.

What do you have to say about the fact that there are plenty of White Americans burning and desecrating the U.S. flag? I do not agree with anyone, regardless of race, color or creed, doing this, but living in a free society they have every right to do so. I guess since you cannot change that fact so you will ignore it. Secondly facts are facts and no anti-Latin buzzwords can change that.

Lol, I find you pretty funny, I ask for proof and you rant about other things. Well, its not like I expected anything concrete to begin with. First, I'd like to say, if you are going to call me by any other name besides 'Michael', at least learn to spell it; it's spelled 'Mikey'. Second, everything has a reason, I have yet to encounter an event that starts from nothing. Third, you may want to brush up on your grammar skills as well, sentences end with a punctuation mark. Also, if you are going to refer to Juan and myself in a sentence stating "Your both traitors ..." It is "You are" or "You're", sorry, but if you refuse to answer my simple requests, you force me to prove your idiocy. Fourth, my mind is an easy thing to change, just show me proof, avoid showing me proof and you prove yourself wrong and simply a raving lunatic refusing to stand up for himself. You instead praise others for having the balls to do what you can't. Do you understand what 'raza' means?

Raza = Race

So all you are telling me in your sentence is "if the 'race' don't like it, they can ..." Wow, English is my first language, yet I understand that much of it. Finally, either you have only recently learned to type the English language or you are in serious need of re-education. You may call me a traitor or whatever you like, but guess what, I will stand up to anyone who only has enough mental capacity to respond to any situation with violence. So far I have only heard you spouting about other people resorting to physical action, not yourself. Only other people have put up videos of themselves or people they know, standing up for their beliefs.

Side note - Don't get into a battle of wits with me, Larry, you are out of ammunition.

On last thing, refer to my earlier post for what proof I wanted, ok?

Lol, you again show your lack of an American education. I'm sure glad you are not a teacher. Going to avoid my questions? What do you think, that if you ignore what I said, then you are still smart in your little world? Seems you don't do much else, except sit your butt in front of the tube and watch till something you like to rant about comes up. Here is a phrase you might recognize: Couch Potato

Exactly what I was thinking about you. So my previous statements ring true, thank you for proving my point.