Let us say I go before a judge because I was caught evading the payment of taxes or writing bad checks or shoplifting.
Could I go before the judge and say, "But, Your Honor, I've been committing this crime for many years and I wasn't caught. YOU should have had better enforcement in place to prevent me from commiting this crime and you didn't. So, because you didn't and you allowed this lack of enforcement for so long, you cannot prosecute me for this crime, nor levy the logical or prescribed penalties. "
"In fact, I think, that because of your lack of enforcement, all of this time blatantly enabling me to commit this crime; you should reward me! Yes! Reward me with further access. Oh, and a better life, which includes free health care and education. Those are just a few things I want. I do want more and I'll let you know along the way what other things I ought to have."
"And this language you speak here? I really don't like it and I don't feel like learning it, okay? I want you to learn MY language and provide translators for me whenever and whereever I need them; including here when I've broken yet another one of your idiotic laws that you should have prevented me from breaking in the first place."
"You need to understand that you shouldn't even be trying to do anything about me committing this crime because the only reason I did so in the first place was because I needed to! I need the money! I lived in sheer squalor and I needed to get out of that."
"And yes, this is doublespeak, Your Honor. I do want it both ways. I do want you to believe that it shouldn't be a crime in the first place, because of my need and I also want you to believe that it IS a crime but that it's YOUR fault I committed it because you didn't prevent me or others sufficiently enough over the years from doing so. Yep, I want my cake and I want to eat it too."
"And, Your Honor, please don't disagree with my stand on any of this because I have purple skin and with any disaccord you will be demonstrating racism"
Sure, I could say all of that.
And then the gavel would come down with a crisp and defining "thwack" and I'd be on my way to jail.
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Comments: 89
I love it!
Excellent article Lisa. Reading it made me frustrated and illegals have become a political Pandora's box, which is currently wide open.
Bob- thank you!
Ron- rounding them up is a start. And we have to keep going on that and deport them and prevent them from returning.
I get so sick of hearing that these people are doing jobs that Americans won't. For the vast majority of it, that simply isn't true. Especially in construction.
And although you are right about Mexico and the corruption- things won't change HERE until we come down very hard on the people who are employing them. We also have to stop allowing them to collect from our assistance programs.
Mexico and other countries' problems are not ours and perhaps all of these people who are marching in our streets with their Mexican flags ought to be doing so in Mexico City. And I understand that they are seeking to escape poverty. But that doesn't mean that I am responsible for them nor should I be forced to pay for them and deal with their "in your face" attitude about being here illegally.
You are right. It is a Pandora's box and the real evils haven't even come out yet. I hate to see what would happen if they are all given amnesty. I'm actually afraid of what will happen then. It's very clear that our elected officials are not listening to the populace on this issue. They represent the citizens of other countries more than they do us right now.
Dan- I'd love to know that too. And if you use the social security number of another person- it's a FELONY. And anyone here doing that would be prosecuted.
I've seen so many fake ids in the past several years and I'd love to be confiscating them along the way. Unfortunately I'd be afraid for my safety if I did. I've seen some pretty ugly responses when I tell them their paperwork is fake and I won't employ them. One of my staff members was threatened and had to phone the police about it because one of them was angry because we didn't put him to work. Just more stuff we shouldn't have to deal with on a daily basis.
Lee says: I agree. Couple those with closing the borders and patroling it in a much more serious way (by supporting rather than prosecuting the patrol) and Mexico might eventually be forced to address it's own complicity in this.
Or the drug cartels will finally just take open control of the gov. Either way, it will be better to have stronger border enforcement in place.
People will come in to our office speaking no English and become very angry when they find out that we no longer have a spanish speaking person on staff to talk to them. Many will bring along someone to translate for them. We then tell them that the person applying for the job must speak English. They don't like that at all. When we explain to them that it's a safety issue on the job and they must be able to understand their supervisor's instructions- they don't care. They just want what they want and nothing else matters.
And what really angers me is that unless I accomodate all of that and accept it, in the minds of many pro-illegal immigartion folks, I am a racist. I'm supposed to be the one who is totally open minded- no matter what the detriment to me or my country but it's okay for them to be closed minded and not try to understand where we are coming from. That makes NO sense to me at all. And I doubt it ever will.
Larry- although I like some of Tom Tancredo's beliefs, he doesn't stand a chance in '08
Debbie- thank you! I see too much of this on a daily basis in my work that I have to speak out.
You might want to go back and learn the English language a bit better yourself,
Amber.
Amber- if you have an actual argument, go ahead and present it and I'll be glad to respond. I haven't seen one yet. The irony presented in your comment about the English language was precious.
It sickens me when people start refering to California as "Mexifornia." I work hard and pay my taxes to help further my country, not support some illegal person scamming the system. (This goes for illegal people from any country.) I should clarify that while I do understand that most immigrants come to the USA to escape aspects of their lives like poverty, oppression, political persecution, war, famine, etc. they should still go through the proper channels. Apply for citizenship like the original immigrants did. If not, and they are caught (engaging in illegal activities, or standing in line at the gas station,) they should immediately be deported.
Amber~Force everyone to renounce their cultural background? Why not? It apparently wasn't working out too well for them wherever they came from, thus they came here. Their religion? Absolutely, lets abolish religions that view the "American Infidel" as targets for destruction. Why illegals come here to start their own failed cultures over again is beyond me. These little "communities" usually end up the same way their country of origin has ended up so why bring it here?
Bottom line: If you gained access to the US illegal means, get the hell out! If you came to America to better your life, adapt to our "culture," work hard, pay taxes, and become a productive member of our society, welcome and I hope the best for you!
I could go on with my ranting, but I'd better stop now before I offend one of our great country's "uninvited guests." After all, it'll only be a matter of time before their rights outweigh mine because they feel discriminated against.
Thanks for posting such a wonderful article!
~DragonSoul
I don't know if we'd agree on any other issue at all. But I whole heartedly agree with you on your points, in particular the one I have pasted here.
Don't know if you are a writer either, but way-to-go keeping it short and pithy (doing that is a huge challenge for me ... I can make a two word comment into a two page ramble with my eyes closed).
DragonSoul !. Feb 11, 2007, 12:23am EST
Amber~Force everyone to renounce their cultural background? Why not? It apparently wasn't working out too well for them wherever they came from, thus they came here. Their religion? Absolutely, lets abolish religions that view the "American Infidel" as targets for destruction. Why illegals come here to start their own failed cultures over again is beyond me. These little "communities" usually end up the same way their country of origin has ended up so why bring it here?
The first six months? This is what they do in our country? Think again Amber. I'm sure it may be true for a very small number of them but try years or never for many.
No entienden?? Porque??? Donde esta su educacion??? "
Sie sin dein stummer esel, so, Pog ma thon!
~Alma de un Dragon
I would love to see you go to Mexico and be dropped off in a hostile environment speaking not one word of Spanish!!!"
Amber, at least be honest. "hard working immigrants"?? We are talking about ILLEGAL ALIENS here. If you'd like to have a conversation about immigrants, start your own article but don't try twisting the words of those who are participating in this one. No one is talking about legal immigrants.
You think these illegals were dropped off here against their will? Like they didn't have a choice? They don't belong here and they didn't have to come. They weren't dropped into hostile territory without the skills to survive. They invaded illegally.
Also, I must say that you are far too bold for your own good by having the audacity of making any assumptions (uninformed at best) about my family's heritage. And for the record, Nazi's should be lined up and shot, not merely deported. But that is an article for a different time and place.
Keep fighting the good fight, Lisa!
And you say my grammer is bad?
Anyway, enough of the pissing match with Amber and back on subject...oh yeah! Illegal Aliens (not legal immigrants.)
I would hope that your English comprehension skills would serve you better. I'll help you out on this one. It's because the article is about illegals.
Get it now?
If by some chance I have offended any illegal aliens (the subject of this article) I hereby hope it pisses you off to the point of leaving the USA for good and telling all your friends never to come here because of our oppression toward unwanted parasites.
I'm sorry Amber, but I cannot continue this "conservation" with you. You have contributed nothing to this "conservation" up to this point and I'm going to conserve my energy for those who are capable of adult conversation.
Dragon- feel free to continue to contribute to this article. Ignore is a good option.
Speaking of being hateful, at least I have not resorted to petty name-calling and personal insults of one's intelligence. Which reminds me, this would be a great time to point out that your name-calling on sever occassions and attacks on my (and others') personal character is in violation of Gathers "Terms of Service" and "Community Guidelines."
I am not backtracking to cover up anything. I really feel that illegal aliens (from whatever country) have no business being here (in the USA) and furthermore should be sent packing back to the holes they crawled out of. The key is "Illegal Aliens," not "Immigrants." Please try to understand that we are not now, nor have we ever been discussing immigrants not belonging in American society. The topic of this article is illegal aliens. So far you have failed to differentiate between the two terms.
And again, I feel the need to correct you on your punctuation. One exclaimation mark will suffice to end any of your sentences. And while we're on the subject, what's with the number "1" after your string of pointless exclaimation marks? I don't remember ever seeing a literary rule that says it is grammatically correct to continue a sentence with a number after concluding punctuation has been established.
What I wrote is pertinent, as far as I'm concerned. If someone wishes to use it as a platform to spew immaturity and hatefulness- it speaks more of them than anything. This isn't my first time at the rodeo and I've got pretty thick skin.
Larry- you are right and the vast majority of people who have a problem with illegal immigration have no problem whatsoever with folks who come to this country legally.
Kathleen- thank you. It really should be just that simple. If I commit a crime in this country, I must suffer the prescribed consequences. Not so with this situation.
LOL Don- yeah Amber decided that she'd stalk me for the day because I flagged one of her articles that was filled with hatred towards another Gather member. So she showed up here with her sweetness and light and then deleted it all as if nothing happened.
Keep up the good work gal !
If we reward people for breaking our laws just to be here, what kind of message are we sending them about the relevance of those laws? If they have no respect for those laws or how their actions affect others, what kind of citizens would they be? If they believe they don't have to obey laws they deem not to pertain to them or not fair, what laws will they later consider the same? If they steal from their own and from us now, how are we supposed to really believe they want to become part of this great country?
Thanks for your input!
Looks like Amber came in here and spread her knowledge again. Or, lack thereof. And then deleted it when it got too tough for her to handle. Gee, I see not much has changed.
A+++++++++++ for you, Ms D.
Thank you Robin!! I appreciate it.
It's a bit different here because, although we've benefitted from illegal aliens vis a vis cheap labor and services, now that our overall economy is reflecting the very real effects of globalism [and it's right in our faces] we have to blame "someone" -- in order to "fix" it or stop it. The solution for many is to "send them all back." [Where would you send the French?]
It's also easier to blame those who are "here" than to face the anxieties and truths about outsourcing and cheap goods and free trade agreements with other countries. Our government doesn't much care how we as individuals are impacted by illegal or cheap labor and have demonstrated they are not going to take on the Chinese, for example, or OAS or other global special interests. So far, our ag business has been favored; but that will end too [small farmers lost out a long time ago]. Kicking out all the "illegals" and closing the borders will dramatically change our economy and our culture. Bush and other special interests [and it will be interesting to see how many of our shining new "candidates"] are desperate for a "guest worker program," never mind the lessons of old europe -- that old europe that is do disdained by the neocons. Just devil's advocating here.
Actually Peter, to a certain degree yes. For assistance to those who are coming here legally until they acclimate and learn the language well enough that they no longer need it. However, when you have a group of people entering the country illegally and then demanding that services are offered to accomodate them, then no. To me, they don't belong here and are already costing so much in $$ to support their presence- adding the language accomodation is just a small part of the whole package.
Why should I, as a taxpayer in this country pay in my taxes to have a translator in court for someone who has committed a crime in this country AFTER they committed a crime by being in this country, just so they can understand what they are being charged with? It's insane!
Why should I have to pay to have forms in Spanish available so that people who aren't legally entitled to collecting welfare and other subsidies can fill them out and collect some of my hard earned cash? That too is insane!
Missy, I think you are right in some ways but I don't believe that our culture would change that much by sending them back. I also do not believe it would affect our economy as much as people say it would. I think the burden they create on everything being alleviated and the extra cost in some areas would be a wash.
"The whole world wants what we have to give, I suppose."
Yes, Peter, they do. And I don't understand why people think I should work hard to GIVE it to them. I'm sorry things are tough in Mexico and other Latino countries. But that doesn't make me responsible for taking care of those country's people. If these people are so industrious and such a great asset to a country, they- collectively ought to be industrious and an asset to their own country and take that energy and their demands and present it to their own leaders instead of coming here and demanding it from us.
Thanks Peter and Missy for coming by! Although I may not agree totally with them, I appreciate your views.
And I understand what you mean about Spanish being more prevalent in coming years but those who come here need to take their assimilation seriously and not expect that. In my work, our customers find it a real production and safety issue.
Larry- I'm going to ask you to please tone it down for my article and keep on topic. There is no need to be calling any names in order to have a discussion.
further more, what ever happened to being able to do your own work? mexicans drive by with their loud moosick and scare the heck outta everyone, i went to vegas and almost puked because every window was shaking from booooomm booom , boooom chick boooom chick booom boooom chick, wut up wit that???????? did sinatra do that????? who is their role model???? dizzy b????? Werd.
Yes, all due respect is mine- please allow it. Leave the bullshit at the door. If you'd like your own platform, start one
Can you discuss illegal immigration without getting so ugly about it? Or talking about global warming at the same time?
I'm just asking for a little respect for everyone. No one is stupid.
Thank you. Comments of his kind is what makes people assume that we are all racists. He sits in his apartment complex on Tropicana behind the safety of his computer, thinking up shit to try and convince us all of his intelligence. He doesn't think we know that he rode the "little" bus to school.
You are right, the immigration issue is an ugly one. That does not mean you have to be ugly in the discussion of it.
Yes, it is and ugly situation and one that needs to be corrected. I just don't feel that I or anyone else needs to call anyone else names or act in a belligerent manner towards others in an effort to discuss the whole thing. That's all.
Forget it....this guy just doesn't get it! He doesn't even know who's on his side and who's not. He's just one of those cowards who likes to call people names from the safety of his computer. He starts the shit and then accuses you of being (as he calls it) lib symp? Ha Ha Ha! And remember...HE'S the ONLY one who knows anything! Lisa...YOU?....Ill informed? This guy's a nut case!
But instead I have my diabetes, was born in America, and I cant get barely any help from the state... Got to love it..
Felicia- that really stinks! And yes, you are probably right- you'd probably have the help you need. It's really a sad situation. And I'm sorry for you.
Sorry, I came back and Larry was into his rabid mode -- tells me something about Tancredo. I think I understand the impulse, but I definitely do not agree with or aspire to his methods.
I'd like to see some of the resources going up in smoke in the middle east diverted to our borders; particularly the southern border where the drug cartels have created a war zone -- on both sides and all around the country. There is also smuggling that goes on across the northern border and precious few or non-existing resources to patrol it.
I'd also like the problems in our schools addressed. I really would like to rebuild our public school system and, yes, that means prioritizing resources and getting a handle on illegals. I don't think ordinary hard working Americans should have to figure out how to put their kids through private school because this administration is funneling money to private contractors. As it is, we have a segregated school system that's just as dysfunctional as it's ever been in our history.
Our prisons are inhumanly crowded and bursting at the seams. Our governor wants to export prisoners to other states. Wouldn't it make sense to fix our borders, and put the resources into schools instead of prisons?
It's tempting--and easy to blame illegals for all the ills of our society--while pretending that this is an overnight problem. Our elected representatives have cut deals with other countries and given Swift Meat Packing, just as an example, a break at our expense, to put it mildly. For every business like your own that is scrupulous, there are probably ten who are not. Why? Because they want the goodies that come from cheap labor and they know they can get away with it because they also know we want the cheap goods and services. Not everyone does mow their own lawn and many companies, of all sizes and kinds, use illegal labor.
Larry said: "If you notice I did not name big buisness as a problem"
I did notice and what does he think Swift Meat Packing is, a mom and pop? Speaking of mom and pops, don't know what it's like where you live, but here the mom and pops are among those who very often rely on illegals. But, that's a drop in the bucket. Marijuana farming is big business here -- AND everyone pretends it's not. They don't pay taxes except on their boutique "fronts," and illegals from the south of the border drug cartels mind the patches, with guns. You don't go for walks in the woods. We've had increasing numbers of busts in suburban growing, which is growing. Many of the growers by the way are from Europe and other parts of the world. That's what I meant when I said our country would be very different if we didn't all participate in looking the other way.
I don't see any of our duly elected officials [except the border agents who are not on the take] coming to terms with this anymore than they've heeded the message that voters sent them about the war.
I would like to take my country back -- from the illegals, from walmart, from global corporate elites and from rabid war mongers who believe that a job in the army and a humvee is our destiny, and from the corrupt politicians who sell us out. We're breaking the bank to bring democracy [make that get the oil] around the world and totally dismantling our own.
The proposed North American Union deal is a real deal. Condaleezza Rice is one of the principal parties to it. I don't have a link; don't remember where I found it -- Council on Foreign Affairs, perhaps.
I've also noticed that Larry's rabid rhetoric is generic. Only the "subject" differs from general hate language.
Or get use to this country being a mexican stink hole that will only get worse.
Lisa D it is because of persons like Larry ( Himmler ) French that pick up your banner that make it hard to distinguish between individuals and groups opposed to illegal immigration and those that have a more sinister agenda.
Thanks for your sane words re having the ability to make distinctions and for using the word "sinister" in the proper context. I like to think my sense of right and wrong and my brain is sufficiently intact in order to make criticial distinctions without having to be spoonfed, though I'll concede there are many things we don't know, and often can't know, in any given situation. Conscience, critical thinking, and commmon sense very often has to suffice -- while we're assessing the "facts" and the "source" of the facts.
Your "message" as to how people attack the messenger instead of the message comes through loud and clear, as does a whole host of repetitive phrases with which that message is infused. Anyone with good will and intelligence is willing to debate issues and can distinguish between a hateful ideological message and a hateful and ideological messenger. You appear to be one of the latter, bearing one of the latter. I don't need your documentation to make my points or to come to conclusions. I probably know more than you've forgotten on this particular subject. If you bothered to read or critically read my comments, you will see that I've answered your charges.
As for critical thinking and reading. There's a difference between documentation and propaganda, and documentation that is used as propaganda. Eventually, everyone has to engage both their conscience and their brain to come to some conclusions about the facts at hand.
You talk about others attacking you as the "messenger" which is meant to camoflauge the fact that you are attacking and scapegoating a group of people for your own purposes -- I don't believe that it's just "illegals" with whom you have issues.
I'll help you with that, Juan and it will then be easier to distinguish for you. Listen and add a bit of thought.
Thank you for participating and pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. :D
Heil Hitler, I guess my perception that the hate mongers with their racist beliefs would be hiding behind the ant-illegal immigration movement was right on the nose. Larry ( Himmler ) French just resorted to the old tired standby of "race traitors" and just proved what I have been stating all a long.
=)
"Keep in mind, you keep accusing us of being Nazis, KKK, racist and all the rest, well, guess what? You just keep pushing your raza agenda on America and you just might find out what real racism is, on that day you will wish you were dead."
I was wondering when the threats would start. Typical when someone does not have the mental capacity to debate openly and with a mature manner they often resort to childish threats. Oh yea I corrected your grammatical mistakes.
This is the pledge that is taken by those people who enter the United States legally. Those people who enter illegally pledge no alligence to our flag, yet, want the liberty and justice that this pledge promises.
I get very resentful each year that my taxes rise and my quality of life suffers at the expense of those who want America's to pay the price for a few more DEMOCRATIC VOTES.
Close our borders, protect our ports and throw the bums out. Freedom and liberty are not free, my grandson was killed Jan. 07 in Iraq for that pledge.
Amnesty - Amnestia`
Lisa you said in your article: Could I go before the judge and say, "But, Your Honor, I've been committing this crime for many years and I wasn't caught. YOU should have had better enforcement in place to prevent me from commiting this crime and you didn't. So, because you didn't and you allowed this lack of enforcement for so long, you cannot prosecute me for this crime, nor levy the logical or prescribed penalties. "
Robiyah said: This is absolutely perfect! I have another story, one that I should post here. It's about the ILLEGAL immigrant breaking into your house and requiring that you change YOUR lifestyle to suit them in THEIR new home. It's priceless.