Does Alan Dershowitz Own Gather?

Thanks Vicky! I don't have a problem with giving both sides a platform , but it has reached the point where it seems like an endorsement. Mr. Dershowirz is the type to sit back and make a living by taking cheap shots at honest individuals who are working hard to bring peace. Mr. Carter should be praised for his efforts to ease tensions between the United States and Cuba, Israel and Palestine, and many other nations. One has to wonder who is really "For Sale".

Clearly, someone believes (all the evidence so far to the contrary) that Dershowitz has something valuable to say.
It may be Dershowitz himself, since he a relentless self-promoter, too.

A meaningful debate about Palestinian dilemma would be very helpful. So far, all we have heard are repeated circumstantial arguments (his foundation has accepted Arab money) that Jimmy Carter is not trustworthy.

Peter Wimsey, you're dead on about Dershowitz. He's a self-promoting pimp who's always onstage. He may know something about the law, but that's about it. I could care less what he has to say about anything. I guess he can't help it, though...he's a lawyer.

David and Peter,

I agree we've heard enough from Dershowitz. However, I simply see him as a disgruntled and biased Jew who sees things through myopic glasses.

I've got a lot of respect for President Carter and what I've read of his book he's just telling it like he sees it.

Thanks!

Wow, this is one of the few issues that we disagree ... and you, James, who I normally think of as one of a very few really thoughtful and fair people on Gather seem like bin Laden from the 13th dimension? Go figure! ;-)

Bruce,

I've had that view of Dershowitz for some time, since reading what he believes of th situation. And, were I a Jew, I would most likely hold at least some of the opinions Allen does. But I don't believe he is capable of looking at this from an unbiased standpoint.

Basically, his view is shaped by his heritage and ancestry, and when he writes it is flavored with this. There are subjects on which one can not be "unbiased" and this is probably one for Allen. That certainly doesn't make him a bad person in my opinion, just a Jew who reflects that background.

Asking him to write without bias, about Israel and it's problems, is akin to
asking the Pope to write an "unbiased" editorial about the bible.

I've asked others here, who state that we are not getting the truth in this matter from the media, just how one is to determine which story coming out of the area is the "true" one. If our press is to be completely thrown out as biased and untrustworthy, then just how is one going to get the truth. Everyone reporting from the area is highly biased one way or another.

If that still isn't making sense to you then I guess I am just stuck in that 13th dimension. Kind of like living in the twilight zone.

James, I believe that no matter how biased someone is that if they are good and fair-minded people they can see each other's point of views. There are some things I think badly of Dershowitz about, like some of the people he has defended. As I said I have read one book that he wrote, "Supreme Injustice" about the failure of the Supreme Court after the 2000 election, and whatever he thinks about on the matter, he build a case on facts.

I believe most of the attitudes about the Middle East from Dershowitz that I have heard are likewise based on facts, in fact not just based on facts, but based on all the facts, not leaving out facts that do not agree with his point of view, or exaggerating the facts. The man has a first class mind and though being a Jew surely influences his feelings about the situation, I have yet to see anything he writes that compromises on his integrity.

I do not understand what your reluctance is in the subject of the Middle East, but if I had to take a stab at it knowing a bit about you and your fair-mindedness and usual reasonableness, I would say that in the absence of full understanding, you like most Americans are very reluctant to back what could be an injustice. In this world it is very hard to find all the facts and piece them together in a holographic kind of logic to have enough of an objective perspective to make judgements, and in fact most Americans, particularly Liberal Americans are very reluctant to make judgements about anything.

I consider the major fault of the left, and I think it is the flaw in your thinking on this matter. I think you do not know enough about the issue, and I think you are not interested enough to find out, so you plop yourself in a spot that looks "fair" from your point of view. That is often a good first order way to decide how to act on an issue. Kind of like me and Darfur. I know very little and am not that interested in learning about the issue. I would not support one side or the other since I do not know what I am talking about on the issue. I can read a bit about it and get a "feeling", but to base an important decision of just trying to brush it off my attention is not my style. Darfur is not that important to me, so I sort of stay out the argument, preferring to listen.

The Middle East on the other hand is the major hot spot of the world. I have heard about and read it about for decades, mostly in the last decade. I know there is much more to know, but I feel that I have the fundamentals of the conflict down pat. The simple model is that Israel is just trying to survive against Islamic ??? ... it is here that the problem happens.

I can say terrorists, and that is not quite right, although there are terrorists, or I can say nationalists. There is not a good word in our concept for the gestalt of what is happening in Islam at this time in the world. It is also not all of Islam, since this conflict is focused mostly in the Arab Middle East, but also Iran now. I think the types of societies that exist in most of the surrounding Arab lands all have the cracks in them that Iran has shown recently, and are all ready to move into the future. The Arab/Israeli issue is the one hot-button issue that pushes all of them back to the reptile brain, the fear emotion that short-circuits thinking, and fortifies nationalism.

This dynamic is terribly important for America's leaders to understand, and for us to behave intelligently on. We have not behaved intelligently for a long time. We even have reasons to be self-critical, for example, our solid support of the Shah or Iran. But, the world and our understanding of it was different. We cannot have national paroxyms of guilt, shame and self-flagellation, everyone and every nation makes mistakes, and mistakes at that level mean lives sometimes for lots of people. We have to keep forging ahead doing the best we can and be open to changing our conception for what that is.

I agree very much with Dershowitz criticism of Jimmy Carter, and Obama's disagree with Jimmy Carter. There is something very queer about Carter and his lobbying efforts for the Palestinians, and the way that causes him to balance the scales in this conflict. I do not think Carter has good judgement, and that is why despite thinking that he is a moral man who tries to do right, I think he is a bad leader or person to look for for international leadership.

One funny thing, I read about book by Herb Cohen called "The Game of Negotiating: Caring...But Not That Much". Cohen is a world famous negotiator who actually worked for Carter while he was in the White House on the Iranian hostage situation.

The chapter on this is hazy now, but the gist of it was that Carter brought in experts, but he did not listen to them. When tried to get something done, Carter was very anxious to tell them that they do not know anything about the Muslims, and that the Muslims were all willing to kill and die for their beliefs, they are not like us. Cohen tried to make the point to Carter that the Ayatollah Khomenei (sp?) was about 80 years old, so he seemed to like his life and not be suicidal at all.

In fact you can read a snippet of this book here on page 26:
http://www.amazon.com/Negotiate-This-Caring-T-H-T/dp/0446696447/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253257937&sr=8-2

Searching for "ayatollah" ... he was 86 at the time of the revolution and hostage taking. Carter like most politicians was stroking his own ego, he had to be right. And he continues to do the same self-righteous BS to this very day.

Mitch - where exactly is the Jew bashing here? In fact I don't buy into Dershowitz's claims because of the literature I have read about the subject, much of it written by Jewish Israelis. Take for example Benny Morris, who is a professor at Ben-Gurion Unversity in Israel. I made no ridiculous claims about Dershowitz bashing Carter because he is a "son of the south", so don't put word in my mouth.

I suppose you are right about that, however on your part you may want to address the particular party responsible for the comment. Otherwise it seems as though you are refering to the article and all commenters as "Jew bashing".

Mitch,

That would be "Jew Bashing" if I felt there was something inferior about Jews. I don't! However if you feel that is politically incorrect, that is your opinion and you're entitled to it! And he is a person who is disgruntled and biased because of his Jewish heritage.

Appreciate your viewpoint!

Who's Mitch?
By the way you don't have to bash people because you think they are inferior, in fact a lot of people bash people because they are superior, or any other reason they see advantage into picking on someone.

I like the columns by Dershowitz. From what I've read, he's receiving more criticism from the gather crowd than accolade. The columns bring the issue to the forefront - which is exactly what President Carter had in mind when he wrote his book, Palestine Peace not Apartheid. I recently listened to him speak on C-SPAN and learned that his intent in publishing the book now was to start a dialogue regarding the Palestinian / Israeli issue.

I've watched the former president speak, I've met him and I've read his work. He is a fine human being and I am now currently reading his newest book - largely because I intend to address Mr. Dershowitz here on gather before his columns come to an end.

That will be interesting. To bad there no button to click to get an email when you do that! Guess I'll have to keep my eye out.

It always amazes me that people think the media has a liberal bias. When are we going to see Noam Chomsky featured on every media outlet available?

Diana, I suppose that you are correct about Dershowitz bringing more attention to the issue. I just don't see how he merits the amount of exposure he is getting. It would make more sense if Gather found a competing viewpoint to offer beside it rather than appearing like a Dershowitz billboard.

Mitch,

I certainly would if I thought his "Christianity" was the reason for his views I seek to discredit. An explanation of why he might see things in this matter is relevant.

I hope the day has not arrived when any mention of a person's heritage is verboten! I don't take politically correct that far and think that those who do are looking for trouble instead of trying to solve it! Heritage is too precious to squander in that manner.

Again, I appreciate your view point!

Mitch R.

//It is not a matter of PC, you wouldn't refer to Jimmy Carter as a "Christian" when trying to discredit him, would you? //

Haven't read enough of Mr. Dershowitz's work to know whether he uses the word "christian" precisely the way you've used it here, but he certainly has trashed Mr. Carter's work across the board and certainly has promoted the notion that Jimmy Carter is an antisemite and that anyone who agrees with Carter's take on the Palestine-Israel divide is also an anti-semite.

Haven't read enough of James C to know whether he's JC or an anti-semite or both, or perhaps sloppy in his writing. We all do write and talk a bit sloppy and a bit offensively and defensively -- and we all do harbor dark corners in our hearts when it comes to bias on all manner of things. Most of us, however, don't make a career out of slamming someone as anti- "whatever," as Mr. Dershowitz definitely seems to be doing.

Anyway, I've wondered why Dershowitz's head and shoulders shot keeps popping up -- guess he paid for an ad -- or gather want's to promote his articles, or both. Having read Carter's book, I do think it's obvious that Dershowitz has a personal thing about Carter and is intent on discrediting him and obviously has his own particular take on the Palestine-Israel issue.

Missy,

You're probably correct in that most of us write or talk defensively, offensively and sloppy to some extent. And if it can be said incorrectly, I am capable of doing so!

After reading the series of Dershowitz some time back, I don't think it is personal toward Carter, but rather the things Carter believes about the Israel and Palestinean problems.

I see Carter as a man who wants to contribute to peace and who strives to be as unbiased as he is capable of being. I have some of Carter's books and like to read his views. But he and Dershowitz do not share the same perspective on the situation. I guess it is incumbent on us to ascertain which pony in the race belongs to whom.

I think there is a little of both there. Carter has a complex on this issue that has wedged him into a stupid position. Read my other posts of today. By the way, we all do know now that this conversation or two years old. ;-)

Anybody see the hand-written letters exchanged between Jimmy Carter and some Jewish bigwig, whereby Jimmy Carter accuses said bigwig of slander? It isn't Dershowitz exclusively but, I believe, a whole organization of Jewish heritage people. It's still going on and apparently garners alot of gatherites to respond in kind.

Kimberly M. wrote:

RE: Negroes can run faster, jump higher, and dance better, or that Jewish people seem to love money.

So what ethnic group do you belong to that is still in the Neanderthal phase of human development?

Missy - I would imagine Gather thought it would be great to find a well known author to write substantive articles which would spur a grand debate. Instead they got Dershowitz.

this was the theory i came up with!
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976892518

Carter is really credible. He lied about his education and academic background. Just contact the carter library and get his action certificate for annapolis: he failed the entrance exam. And he lied about taking graduate courses at Union College. The guy has stupid people fooled. He conned people into thinking he had some nuclear background.

Dershowitz is pretty brilliant, and he can make a point. I think he is ineffective when he lobbies for Israel because he ticks people off with his keen intellect. This is a problem in which thinking at the cortical level is done by a small minority, most people are mushing symbols from their religious brainwashing or from one-sided photographs or stories they have seen in the media.

But, having said that I will look up the article and read it ... I like a little mental stimulation and I do happen to mostly agree with Dershowitz on Israel.

By the way ... I can understand you point that you are thinking Dershowitz is overexposed on Gather ... which I have never seen, I guess I do not frequent Gather's front page, ever. But, playing into the old stereotype of rich Jews owning the media is kind of cheap David ... maybe not quite in a par with stealing someone's photograph, but negative on both dimensions of the thoughtfulness spectrum.

By the way again ... to say that Dershowitz is again taking a shot at him for expressing his point of view. He makes an argument and you know where he stands and what he thinks the facts are. So if you think he is miscalling the facts, then call him a liar, but to call him biased is in this context just name calling. You might as well just call him names or tell us what you think of the situation in the Middle East so we know how biased you are?

But back when I could easily find Gather's home page, and when there were articles on it, I got a similar irritation when I would see what I thought, and believe the facts proved were biased articles from a supposedly Gather's Travel Correspondent, who seems to do most of his traveling in the Middle East from the Palestinian perspective, and so used to show all the sad and sympathetic photos and stories from the Palestinian side, and in my opinion leave out the other side entirely. That bugs me and it still goes on fairly periodically. The last time I remember seeing anything from Dershowitz was back when I first joined Gather ... over 2 years ago I think.

How biased are you Dave?

Bruce,

All of us have some bias on some things. For Dershowitz to be biased because of his heritage is quite reasonable. I don't understand why he has posted nothing for two years. And calling someone biased when there are strong reasons for that bias is not name calling in my opinion, but rather is describing the possible reasons for expressions that sound biased.

It is entirely possible to be "biased" and it not be a pejorative as bias works both ways.. We all develop biases throughout our lives just hurrying along and keeping our heads down. On the other hand if one purposely misstates facts, which is the nicest description of lying I've ever heard, to call them a liar may be accurate but unlikely to advance any level of understanding with that person.

James, if you read the typical Internet bullshit posts that Dershowitz got I am sure he probably figured there are few other things less productive in the world than trying to argue with idiots here on Gather, or anywhere else and being inundated by it.

I think it was probably a nice try by Gather when they first started to have some elevated discussions ... I know I was led here by ads on PBS, or I never would have come here at all, but in the subsequent 2 years I find most people arguing the old crap, and most of them have nothing else to do in life.

Dershowitz is a lawyer, and as such he has learned to make a case without leaving impeachable bias in it for the most part. I'd sure would like to know and example of what you think is bias in Dershowitz's statements or writings, and why you think that. It's a lot of effort at this time so I don't expect much, but I am curious. The natural thing for me would be to say you are biased from living up where some of the worst most uninformed rednecks hail from, and I think I know better ... but yours and many others opinions on the Middle East and where you and others draw the line and why is something I find endlessly fascinating.

Bruce,

If I come across the article again I will try to give you an example. I would not argue with your concept that I have bias from where I live. We all are products of such influences.

Like your first line of the third paragraph! I think that the discrepancies in the perceptions of the various persons writing about the Mideast leads us all around the barn in forming opinions. One writer claims that press is misleading us. Another person sees that media as the only one on which one can rely. Without going over there and living for a while, most everyone must for an opinion from "biased" sources.

This is much like the blind men examining an elephant. All with accuracy based on their perceptions! No other subject I've known has resulted in more of the claims that every media source, except their own, is disseminating biased information.

Maybe I am drawing a distinction between what I think "bias" and "slant" are. Can I saw I am biased in favor of justice? Is that something negative, yet that is what the word has come to signify in normal everyday ,or at least Internet connotation.

When I hear Dershowitz, i know he is biased and his communication is aimed at explaining that bias.

When I hear the typical Palestinian claptrap and I put it simply just like I see it, suppoting terrorism and all things I have satisfied myself are not just, I feel it is slant, I feel it is a lie, and unjustified, there is something sick about the logic, and I seek to explain that and my bias as well.

Part of Americans being stupid and not able to wise up is the foolish belief that we should be totally objective or non-biased, or treat both sides of any issue equally. This has made a lot of Americans just crazy and unable to act, the number one problem with the country.

OK, I just checked out Alan Dershowitz's Gather page and there has been nothing posted since 2007. Am I missing something?

Ooops, I guess I am missing something, this article is from two years ago. I wonder why the link popped up as somehow relevent or commented on yesterday? Gather has some algorithms to perfect I think.