President Hillary Clinton: January 21, 2007

Hilary is damaged goods who was made a fool of by her husband as he dropped his pants and threw himself at countless female underlings. She decided her thirst for power was more important than her own dignity. She is unfit for the oval office.

Good article! I think that we need some sort of change in this country and women have long been set to the wayside while they helped to "run the show" whether at home, on their own, or at work.

LOL...Jeff: We obviously define "dignity" differently. And by your words you imply that any wife of a man who would have an affair is "damaged goods."

Ummm....you need a bigger club, man. Beating us over the heads with that one will be a full time job...and I'm talking men and women.

Robin: I agree. Not only that but we run corporations, give birth and run households - and we do it well. We know what we have in Hillary, we know what she's made of.

I don't think we can afford any more unknowns or a guy running off the record of his daddy.

She spoke to the people of New York and told them she would remain senator. They listened.

Across the nation, some of us spoke. She heard what she wanted to hear.

This comment is, in no way, meant to imply a woman is incapable of holding the office.

Jeff's view is shared by many, unfortunately. I think she SHOULD run, but polls have not favored her. Obama and Edwards will give her stiff competition. That's not bad, except that neither of them has the stature or experience that she has.
I am not sure she can win...either the nomination or the election, but I am glad she is running. It's time for this country to have a woman president. Can you imagine Hillary or any other woman saying, "Bring 'em on." Or starting a war that kills thousands of Americans and probably over a hundred thousand Iraqis?
Hillary is a very tough lady, and I think she would make a good president. But the Republican Right Wing has been doing a character assassination of Hillary ever since Bill left office. Hardly a week goes by that I don't get some kind of Hillary-bashing joke or comment. It is disgusting, but consider this: If they are that intent on tearing her down, they must really fear that she COULD become president! So maybe they know something I don't. I am just not sure enough voters are ready to vote for a woman president. How she does...assuming she is nominated...will depend a LOT on how she is portrayed by the media during the campaign, and I don't trust those bastards at all. I think she will get a lot of slanted, negative press. It's gonna be tough...but she IS tough.

Jackie its not the fact she was cheated on its how she dealt with it.

Bert I think Oboma's so called "inexperience" is a good thing. He is not part of the partisan machine and can be taken more seriously than the old war horses. Personally I think the democrats best candidate is Bill Richardson although he has made some mistakes that will certainly be exploited.

Absolutely Bert. It will also depend on her supporters. I find it interesting that we have a female, a black man and now a Hispanic Republican vying for the Presidency. Eight years ago, there would have been no way they would have made it out of the gate.

Yes, she is tough - I think she is tough enough to settle this new cold war we seem to be headed into. She is calculated enough to maneuver through international politics and put an end to all these stupid challenges that Bush seems intent upon issuing to the international community.

If necessary, she'll send us to war. But I am absolutely positive it won't be because she's on a power kick. It would be for the right reasons.

Jeff: in all your wisdom, how would you expect a woman to deal with that B.S. - and in front of the world? COME ON: That crap is difficult enough in the privacy of our homes...but in front of the WORLD?

Obama would make a great Vice-President ... I don't think we'd elect that kind of inexperience to the Presidency.

why not we elected a baffoon in the 2 previous elections. I wouldn't mind seeing a democrat get elected as a change of pace but not Hilary. I cant stand her.

Just think, Jeff - Obama will be the Vice and then perhaps the next Pres. He needs the experience and that's the best way to give it to him.

So, you compromise. You put Hillary in the White House knowing Obama is right there with her. After her term, maybe she steps down and Obama takes the reigns.

He has the one problem that only time can overcome - Hillary is no dummy. She is where she is for a reason - no matter what your personal feelings may be.

Hell - they can't do any worse than Bush.

As much as I dislike Hilary I have to admit that her reputation may actually help her. opinion polls on her are very low but she is actually an incredible speaker and very articulate. She could change a lot of minds and surprise a lot of people with low opinions they have of her. I just one the country to go in a new direction.

It will all depend on how she does in the campaign. As Jeff says, how many minds she can change. She certainly generates strong feelings. There are a lot of people like Jeff who can't stand her, and others...particularly the Religious Right, who despise and loathe her, compare her to Satan. It mystifies me. What did she do to generate such strong feelings? Why is it HER fault her hubby got a BJ in the Oval Office? To me, this doesn't make her "damaged goods," as Jeff put it. I don't understand people who criticize her for staying with him. These, by the way, are the same devout Christians who deplore divorce...while the divorce rates in the Red states continue to climb. HYpocrisy and blind passion play more part in voter's decisions than logic, that's for sure.

We all do.

My opinion is that we need to be drastic. China is a quiet, powerful presence. The world feels defensive against our country and you and I know - we are like everyone else. We want to live in peace.

I think electing Dems to the Houses was the tip of the iceberg. Repubs. have to reorganize and those in power must come to the conclusion that the majority of us are not what they think we are. There is a disconnect and it's costing them dearly.

They assume the "rich and powerful" are Repubs. They are wrong. We are self-made and many remember where we came from.

My most vivid recollections of the Clinton years included the humiliation I felt for Hillary and I recall thinking how desperate the Repubs. sounded with their relentless pounding of Hillary and the 'Playboy.' If they try that again - they'll lose their asses. Bottom line is, they whined why were making a living - a good living - and the nation was thriving.

Somehow that just sticks with me....

Bert: Those who screamed the loudest about Hillary are now ominously quiet as they deal with their own leadership issues. THEY have lost credibility and very recently can be most identified with the Repub. scandals.

I think she faces the majority of her problem at the top - not with us. The men will teeter and think, "Should I really support a woman for Pres?" She has to convince them she can continue to hold her own with those in positions those men admire. If she can - she'll bag it.

If not - Obama will step in and win the vote, his way. I like it because the two of them will change the way this game is played - simply by creating new rules.

The most awesome thing is - they are in a position to do it.

I just wrote the following on another forum I participate in (can you believe there are actually forums OTHER than Gather?!). I don't have time to re-write it right now, but I think it fits in this discussion:
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I agree with f&k, EXCEPT I think the "dueling dynasties" factor would only be a minor one, at best. If she is the Dem nominee, the (large) group of swing voters will be deciding on which of the 2 (major party) nominees will make the best President. (Or - as too many have said in the past - they will hold their noses and vote for the lesser of two evils.) Very few will decide based on a feeling that it is wrong to elect a 2nd Clinton because we've had two Bushes. And, the Republicans will have a hard time playing up that factor because they're the ones who just produced the multiple Bushes. (What kind of traction would they get with that issue?)

As for my fellow Dems here, I think it IS important that we fully support her "if she deserves it on the merits." NOT to withhold our support because we have been convinced by the incessant and irrational drumbeat of the right that she is "Satan incarnate". And that she is therefore too polarizing and unelectable.

I have said before that she is intelligent and impressive enough to overcome her negatives. And, driven enough. I've set out what I thought would be a good strategy for her: townhall situations that would then be the basis for long-form commercials (putting the info back into infomercials!). I would add that those townhall dvd's be widely distributed. The key is for independents and Republicans to see - in the privacy of their own homes, far away from Repub peer pressure, if necessary - that she is NOT the caricature they see in their minds' eye every time they see/hear her name.

I don't know if I'll support her in the primary battle. That WILL depend more on how issues and candidates develop. But, I'm damned sure not part of the "Hillary can't win" wing of the party. (It has put me in an odd position of trying to persuade more-natural-supporters-of-her-than-I to consider a candidate that I may not end up supporting.)
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Great comment, paul!

Thanks, Jackie. I really liked your thread-starter, too.

bush/clinton/bush/clinton.... do we really want this?

No... Woulda been better if we had left out the second Bush!

Seriously, as I said before, I think that would only be a minor factor.

Seriously, I want a democrat in office. The nation needs change and needs to heal. I'm just not convinced she can do it. I don't know who can though. I'm not sure Obama can either. I guess I am a pretty confused Dem (like many of us). I think I will not make any decisions, statements, or proclamations until I see and hear more.

I was thinking more along the lines of bush/clinton/bush/jeb bush ;)

ewwwwwwwwwww...Don - that's not funny.

Gotta love a failure like Hillary...Hillary Care, despised and rejected whole-heartedly.

Liar: said she could not 'find' Whitewater docs. were later 'discovered' in her possession.

Deals with the Devil..."Bill, I will stand by your whoring side, you will promote me and my intellect from here on!"

Yeah, my type of leader, not to mention the money piles received from the Chinese during Bills reign.

Run, Hillary - notice it's always HILLARY, never Ms. Clinton, or Hillary Clinton...it's a wonder she's not running as Rodham! - there already are what 4 books out documenting her political whoredom and lies, best thing that could happen for Republicans is her on a ticket.

I want to see more of her standing and speaking next to Slick Willey, like at Coretta King's funeral. Perfect example of her pettiness and weakness when directly compared to the greatest BS'er in history!

Run, Hillary, run.

Grateful: You leave out a few things. The misplaced documents were not discovered in her possession but among a bunch of packing boxes from when they moved into the White House and the contents confirmed everything she said to be true.

She made a personal decision just as you would make if you were married and were caught cheating. It's none of our business what they decided and why.

I think it's odd that you find fault with her maintaining a name for herself in a field where name recognition is critical. Does that mean that Scooter Libby is somehow tainted?

What amazes me is the depth of hatred directed toward a woman you undoubtedly have never even been in the same room with, spoken to directly, or communicated with on a personal level. Yet you seem to know her every thought, motivation, and idea. What is more amazing is that when someone speaks of Mr. Bush in the same rude, disrespectful, hate-filled tones you actually have cajones to object.

Good Article, I think the country is ready for a change and I know for sure that I am.

Absolutely Carolyn and Twyla: Most of us have worked in an office at some point - have you ever worked in one of those 'nightmare' offices where the politics were unbearable? Or what about some families? Sheesh, been there and done that with wealthy relatives in another state....

Multipy that by at least a million to reach the level our next President had to navigate thru during her years as First Lady. WOW.

Now, if you've been there, and survived - you know what it takes. If you didn't - you know how easy it is to screw up...

This lady did all that and then won the race for Senator.....OMG.

I would LOVE to know how she managed to get through those years and still land on her feet! And to many of us - even men - she has proven her ability to confront and maneuver like a pro.

I think we'll all have a few more laughs at the Repubs. expense in the next few months... Everything they have ever tried to do to next Pres. Clinton has failed.

I think Paul's suggestion that she should do townhall meetings is a great one. Her husband was absolutely at his best in that setting, just listening to people and responding to their comments and questions intelligently and respectfully. If Hillary could come close to Bill's skill, it could change a lot of minds about her.
Of course, it wouldn't change the minds of people like Grateful 1. Let's hope there are not many like him.

I don't vote based on gender. I vote based on best-qualified. Hillary Clinton is the DLC candidate. For those who don't know what this means, it is the corporate wing of the Democratic Party. Senator Clinton can't be trusted, in my opinion, not to sell out the people's interests for her corporate donors. I am voting for John Edwards, who has stood up for people against corporate bullies all his life. I don't care what his demographic is.

Jackie,

Good article and very articulate!

I would say that those who say Obama hasn't enough qualifications please refer to the elections of Regan, (Governor), Clinton the first time, (governor of low population state), Carter, (Governor) and Eisenhower (no governmental experience at all). They need experience on the national stage! And that Obama will have four years of by 2008.

Carter, in an interview after leaving the white house, made the comment that the Presidency was not the place for "on the job training" referencing giving the reins to Regan. He didn't realize that the party would control everything and Regan would be a very capable and photogenic spokes person.

Great comment, Carolyn!
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Thanks, Bert. I have seen her in action - at the '92 Convention (I was a non-Clinton delegate, BTW). I believe that - without a teleprompter, without notes - she was BETTER than Bill. She impressed me, other Tsongas or Brown delegates, and many who came without knowing much about her (other than the stand-by-your-man 60 Minutes appearance). Oh, she can surpass Bill in gaining supporters!
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AstroGirl, I disagree with you about your negative impression of the DLC. Yes, it is closer to the center of the spectrum and she is closer to that center than Grateful1 and Repubs like to portray her. But, overall on the issues, she is pretty close to where the other Dem candidates are ('cept Kucinich, of course).

Paul, the DLC's "centrism" means they aren't too far from the bought and paid for Republicans. In this case, the "center" means the center of the spectrum between corrupt and clean.

John Edwards' contribution page on his web site says this: "John Edwards for President has chosen not to accept contributions from PACs and lobbyists."

Will Hillary Clinton make the same promise? So far, she has not. She and Barack Obama are in a fundraising arms race and will take any kind of money.

Don I might consider voting for jeb....

I'm all for a female President, I'd vote for Judge Judy in a heartbeat. But Hillary ?

Don I might consider voting for jeb....

That leaves me completely speechless. The first Bush was a disaster, the second a catastrophe, and you want another one?

Sorry, Astrogirl. I'm a Democrat thru and thru, and I must take exception at your black-and-white and somewhat-sanctimonious declaration. I applaud Edwards' determination that he is better-positioned by not taking PAC money. But, let's be clear: PAC money does NOT equal dirty money. I've contributed to a PAC or two before because there is strength in numbers. Not all PACs are corporate. There are PACs on the left and PACs on the right. There are PACs that lobby for self-interested financial gain and there are PACs that lobby for changes in laws - including social justice. PACs are made up of people like you and me.

Make no mistake, Edwards is in that fundraising race with Clinton and Obama. He's tacking differently and we'll see who best picks up the wind. All three are very feasible and likable candidates and they all are going to try to differentiate themselves in various ways - this is one of those attempts.

So, let's keep the big picture in mind and keep the faux left vs. DLC battle to a minimum. (ie, you don't say centrists are 1/2 bought and paid for, and I won't say that you're being somewhat sanctimonious. ;-) )

I am not a huge fan of Mrs Clinton but I do respect her for views. Unlike a majority of politicians she does try to stick to her convictions.

what do you mean, Hillary is running for President? She already ran the White House when her hubby billy boy was in there. She upstaged him as much as she could then. She is a power hungry woman, who sways either way she thinks the public wants her to go.
At a memorial for Martin Luthur King she is rambling on about politics against Bush. How respectful is that?
She stood by her man for a bj in the Oval Office, Get real, this wasnt his first scandal involving woman. She stayed with Billy to furthur promote her agenda, she already, had plans that she someday would run for the office herself and he could help her get there by riding the Clinton name.
I have no trouble with a woman for this office but not her. Her and her hubby fail to do anything but talk when it comes to National Security. I think some of you are just jumping on the bandwagon of oh yea, shes a woman, or yea, shes a Dem. It would be wise to look at their track records and to vote for the best candidate whether it is Dem or Repub.

I agree, Joe.

Vickey: People form their own opinions. I don't know about your personal experiences but many, many women have suffered what Hillary Clinton went through - without all the publicity. Those of us who know what that is like - know that it takes two special people - willing to work really hard - to make a marriage work after that kind of betrayal. AND, let me stress that it takes BOTH. The marriage would have faded away - whether Hillary wanted it to or not - had one of the two not been dedicated to remain friends, married, etc. It's easy to walk out - it's the toughest job in the world - tougher than being Pres.- to stay.

Anyway - many, many women would have folded, caved under pressure - disappeared from public view. Hillary Clinton sent a powerful message to the women of America: To stay after adultery is not failure - it is dedication. To remain in politics/in the public eye is to stare every single one of us in the eye and declare, "What? I didn't sleep with her!" It was his burden to bear and she refused to answer for his stupidity. Now tell me that isn't a brave, smart lady...

Right on, Jackie. I am not a great fan of Hillary's politics, but her conduct is irreproachable. People who say she is "damaged goods" puzzle and infuriate me. It seems to me that the reality is exactly the opposite. She has shown her strength of character and her love for her husband. People who ridicule her for that are living by some double standard that I do not understand.

Women are stronger/ more forceful/ more aggressive. We've had to be in some respects... But, we are still female and we do play a specific role. We can't displace men entirely. We've proven on the battle field and in the corporate board rooms that we are a force that cannot be denied - but part of that is balance.

There are many women who don't stray and cannot and will not tolerate that from a male. I'm not saying they are wrong - I'm just saying that men and women are still two very different animals. And, to be honest, Hillary Clinton is one of those women who knows and understands the differences.

Many of us don't and we are consistently disappointed when males think below the belt - in my opinion, we shouldn't be disappointed. We should be aware and prepared to deal with it if it comes up. There are certain behaviors we as women will never quite understand and you guys REALLY need to focus better...lol.

I'm curious, what is the difference between a power hungry man and a power hungry woman? except you hardly hear the phrase 'power hungry man' because that is acceptable. and why does 'power hungry woman' sound bad?

reminds me of an old old song, 'reuban reuban, I've been thinking, what a grand it would be............." anyone remember the rest of it?

Bottom line - this will be one of the most watched, most discussed, most interesting, history-in-the-making presidental elections in my lifetime.

and I'm still undecided - however, I realize the we are electing a president, not a pope............jean

oops 'what a grand world it would be'.........jean

LOL.. I cannot, for the life of me, remember the word.... Now it's playing over and over in my head....

Please post the damn word!!!!!!!

You are right - we are electing the next Pres. People glamorize candidates. You wouldn't believe the shallow crap I hear....

"Ewwwww....cool, Obama looks SO SEXY in that suit!"

"Kerry's too ugly to be Pres."

"Hillary looks like a major bitch."

Okay people: Is this a Presidential election or a beauty pageant?

Shall we try a presidential election this time?

Buffoon is too nice a title for Jeff.....talk about damaged goods....he has made a fool of himself by talking with such a tacky attitude....like they say...there are more horses ass 's than horses....