The Founding Ideas of This Nation

For the most part I think you pretty much have it! I enjoyed the read. Our founding fathers are rolling in there graves. This country is getting worse by the day.

Cortny, I think children are used in these videos to really get your attention. I have seen the video with the little girl and I could not believe what I was hearing. I couldn't take my eyes off the screen. It would have been completely different had it been just another politician or any other adult up on a soap box, I probably would have clicked it off. Whether right or wrong to use them, it works. Look what we are doing right now talking about it...exactly what they wanted.

Its sad that the hysteria of the left wing Christian haters has gotten to this point. They truly think that Christianity is a new phenomenon and that they came to take away their civil liberties. Some that Ive talked to on here are convinced that Christians are out to get them and are destroying America. The "Its all about me" attitude is creating a kook culture among us.

"80% of American's are Christians"

I think we might be a tad better off if this weren't the case, sadly. And, it's not because of the teachings of Christ that I think that way, but rather the callous and shamefully abusive manner in which America's pseudo-Christians have destroyed that religion. What a tragic thing to happen to the religion that man created in the name of the prince of peace.

"I mean to many people are trying to change the things that this country was founded on."

What are you talking about, Cortney? Abolishing slavery? Votes for women?
Who is trying to change the things this country was founded on?

I'm really curious where the 80% of Americans are Christian statistic came from. I have a feeling that it is from the type of survey where people were simply asked to identify their religion, or maybe simply if they consider themselves Christians. I don't necessarily think there is anything wrong with that kind of survey, or with quoting such a statistic. But, let's also talk about it a little, and flush it out. Just because someone says she is a Christian doesn't mean she goes to Church, is a right wing radical, or agrees with everything other Christians say. Nor does just going to Church and claiming to be a Christian really make you a Christian. As a firm Atheist, I don't consider Christianity some new fangled thing that has just come along to destroy our country. Nor do I think that Christians are out to get me. I have a great deal of respect for those who truly believe in their religion and honestly try to live their lives by Christian tenets. I don't always agree with them, but I don't have to. I don't think Christianity, or any religion, in and of itself is a problem. The problem(s) arise from those who want to use the religious beliefs simply to gain power or make others live by their rules. Christian beliefs and the Bible can be used to support almost any idea or position-and it has been many many times. It was used to support slavery, and to deny women the right to vote. I don't think there are very many Americans who currently consider those things good. Yet, when blacks were given freedom and women suffrage, there was a lot of anger and uprising. We all have to accept that change occurs, and it isn't a bad thing.

God Bless America.

Someone posted a link to the original 8 yr olds 'tirade' here on Gather...I found that disturbing, and to hear that it was reciprocated by the 'other side' is equally so...

"""What are you talking about, Cortney? Abolishing slavery? Votes for women?
Who is trying to change the things this country was founded on?"""

Love it or hate it but the Christians were leading the fight to end slavery and civil rights. Why do you think Lincoln passed the Emancipation Proclamation? He didn't have the support needed to forcefully keep the union together. Christians were against it until it changed the reason as to free the slaves.

" The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."
• "[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty."
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817

Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
" He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all." [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

" Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system." [October 4, 1790]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
" God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel" –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

"In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?" [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Patrick Henry: | Portrait of Patrick Henry
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed."
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

"It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

"The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed."

Thomas Jefferson:
" The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man."

"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus."

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever." (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson's Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

Paul D. there are plenty of more examples and I would be happy to help you in your evolving "understanding of our founding fathers" In short what you want to believe isn't always factual. We are a christian nation.

Jeff, I revere John Adams (think his marriage to Abigal was one of the great marriages of all time), and Benjamin Franklin (I grew up making regular visits to Philadelphia.
They were good men. John Adams probably had more traditional Christian beliefs than any of the other fathers (Washington would not take Communion -he attended services until the Offeratory, and departed). Jefferson was so unorthodox (his essence of Jesus is devoid of the supernatural and the miraculous) that you would probalbly not call a Christian in a religious sense -and Jefferson considered himself ethically to be a Chritian.

All this to say that this HAS NO BEARING ON YOUR ARGUMENT.
Whatever their personal piety or lack of it, they did not establish the forms, beliefs, attitudes, or prinicples of the Church in the Consititution.

Is the Constitution compatible wth Christianity? Of course

Is Christianity the predominant religion in America? It is a dead heat between it and materialism and nationalism.

Why did the framers leave all mention of God out of the Constitution? (There is an allusion to Divine Providence) Because it is good for the country AND good for the churches.

Twenty years from now, we will see how badly evangelical faith has been damaged by becoming just another special interest within the Republcian Party.

""""They were good men. John Adams probably had more traditional Christian beliefs than any of the other fathers (Washington would not take Communion -he attended services until the Offeratory, and departed). Jefferson was so unorthodox (his essence of Jesus is devoid of the supernatural and the miraculous) that you would probalbly not call a Christian in a religious sense -and Jefferson considered himself ethically to be a Chritian.""""

Peter you pointed out exactly why these people were Christians before they were a religion. Christianity was never intended to be banned from government they all believed the government was because of Christianity. They opposed one religious form of Christianity over another. They didn't fear or ever intend to exclude Christianity from government. Twisting the words of the founding fathers is just atheists using the courts to project their intolerant tyranny on everybody.

Peter you can dream of the day the evangelism is gone but if you did some research you would know its the fasting growing religion in America. Go figure....

It is alien to YOU Paul that Christians are more tolerant of you than you are to them. It also seems clear that the English language becomes alien to you too when you don't like what you read.

Benjamin Rush:
• "I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them…we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, constitutes the soul of republicanism." "By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds." [Letter written (1790's) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]
• "Christianity is the only true and perfect religion."
• "If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary."

"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education"
Letters of Benjamin Rush, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787

John D for you to claim that our founding fathers didnt think they were establishing a Christian nation is proof that either you are too stubborn to admit when you are wrong or that you are a complete ass.

Wow. I didn't think that I would get such a strong reaction out of this article. I think that some of you people are living in your own fantasy world. It is so very wrong that people are trying to take religion out of almost every aspect of our lives. I think that everyone knows that religion has always been in government in some aspect or another. It started that way and should stay that way. I mean to go so far as to take statues of the (or monuments) out of government buildings is just wrong. It is not as if these statues were just put up yesterday. I wish that people would be more considerate and knowledgable of the start of this great nation.

Courtney I too think today's society or at least a segament of it are doing everything they can to undermine the principles our founding fathers set up and intended. From freedom of speech to now being politically correct. There was no such thing as PC and they would have considered anyone attempting to bring it in as a traitor. Freedom of Religion Peter and Jeff, the right to choose what you believe and how and where or if you worship a God or choose not to believe in anything so long as the Government did not get involved. But Government is involved in Church related buisness one being marriage and divorce, raising children and dictating in parenting plans that one parents relgious beliefs be taught above or over another that is uncostitutinal and should never be allowed by ANY court. Divorce and marriage are church buisness too. But government smells money so interferes. Our whole nation and the founding father's intent is going down the toilet.