Welcome to the 'Sunday Help Series'...!
Let other Gather members help you with your Gather-related questions or problems.
Simply enter your question as a comment below, and I, or other experienced Gather members can provide you with an answer.
(it may not be the right answer, but at least it's free!)
You may also ask questions of other members seven days a week, in the Gather Help Forum, as well review the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs), located under 'help' in the upper right corner of any page on Gather.
Have a Great Sunday!
Please note: Responses will be given periodically throughout the day, and concludes at 10:00pm (EST). Some answers provided will reflect the opinions of Gather members, and may not be that of Gather, Inc. or its business partners.
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Comments: 64
This person seems to be at his computer throughout the day. He is not in my network, but manages to leave comments on my articles often before I have finished sending them to their various destinations (a matter of minutes after completing the publishing of them to Gather).
I suspect that he is subscribed to me, but I have no way of knowing that, nor of removing that subscription.
I usually ignore his comments, but my readers do not. While reading a comment left by a legitimate reader yesterday, I happened to notice the last line of one of his contributions. The final few words were "the pond scum that is in your brain."
I thought that I was strong enough to put this person behind me, to ignore his insane ravings. This morning I want to quit Gather because he has left me with a very bad taste about Gather.
I encourage discussion and debate in comments to my articles. This person leaves no room for either because his attacks are vicious, unrelenting and irrational. He seems to make sense in any given sentence, but collectively his comments are not coherent. He is insane, but he is skilled at making me look bad to anyone who reads my articles and the comments to follow.
It has been so bad that one of my readers complained to Gather, without even consulting me. I don't know who to contact so I can't even follow it up.
At the moment I am ready to walk away from the good people I have met in Gather just to put this person out of my mind.
Any suggestions will be appreciated. No one should have their life ruined by an insane stalker. You can't reason with an irrational person, especially one who has made it clear that his intent is to destroy me.
One of my articles will be featured on the Gather home page this morning. Many people who are not familiar with my writing will read it and his comments. He will be exposed, but he will love the new attention.
Harrassment laws would be nearly impossible to apply because it would require more work and money than this person deserves.
I don't want sympathy here, just ideas. I will not confront this person because, as I said, he is irrantional so you can't argue with him.
I appreciate you posting your issue here. Unfortunately, I do not think that you will receive much action from Gather Inc. in this matter, unless this member has violated Gather's Terms of Service. While the posting of rude, insulting comments on your work is deplorable, it doesn't violate these terms, unless you are somehow feeling physically threatened by him/her. Thus, he/she has a right to provide his opinion, even if it is crude and merely written to incite a reaction from you, or others.
However, the continual posting of these comments could be construed as him/her preventing you from the full enjoyment of the service, which is a violation of the TOS...although that might be a stretch.
I do not know of the comments you are referring to, but let me review them, and I will come back and offer my opinion, as well as a recommended course of action.
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What makes a good article on Gather? - Read THIS and THIS.
I hope you come up with some suggestions for Bill. He's not the only one who gets cyber-stalked here with negative comments; I've seen it happen on many articles by various authors, but haven't seen anyone solve the issue yet.
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976841556
...and since then, if there was a way our Canadian friends could sign up for gift certs and send them to friends and family in the US as gifts? Since the holidays are coming up this would be a great way for them to use their points and would be a nice way to thank them for their hard work here on gather as well.
And while I was thinking (I know it's dangerous but what the heck!) I wondered if there was a way that gather could send the US gift cards to others instead of the member who earned them as gifts too....if this isn't possible at this time, I think it would warrant a 'look see' and possible implementation. They could even have a "security" question like some other sites I use....such as "what's your Mothers maiden name?" to assure the member in fact IS the one chashing in the gift card and asking it to be sent elsewhere. These are just thoughts mind you (and before adequate coffee I might add) but ones I thought I would bring to your attention. thanks Kevin for all you do here on gather! I appreciate it!
There is no fuss, no muss. Gather even remembers the name of the library from the last gift certificate I sent, so I don't have to look it up.
In fact, I have another to send today.
Canadian members (who apparently qualify as foreigners on the US-centric Gather service), along with members from any other country, can donate their points (in the form of gift certificates) to any US destination. However, my understanding is that Gather will not even mail a gift certificate to any destination anywhere outside the US border, even to a member who may visit the US in the future.
Anyone who uses the word "stalker" in reference to another person who is "following" them should be taken seriously. No one uses this term unless they already feel threatened. I know the depression I feel today is largely attributable to the stalker who is devoted enough to want to destroy me.
Another service similar to Gather is in beta. If it offers the benefits of Gather without some of the obvious drawbacks of allowing the continuation of harrassment of decent and honest members, I will recommend it to most of the members of my Gather network.
So far it looks good, better than Gather in some ways. It allows "friends" to network rather than the various euphamisms Gather uses (to avoid offending anyone, such as by having a woman networking with a man as a friend--Gather uses "colleague," a term which has no meaning in Gatherland).
I understand that Gather has deleted the membership of a few people who have offended by breaking the rules of Gather. But that may be rumour based on wishful thinking rather than fact.
John, I believe your comment (above) about your not offering comments to some articles you have read because you don't want to find yourself in the middle of a scuffle involving emotionally unstable people proves my point. Gather won't move against the stalkers, drive-by raters and other offensive people for fear of being charged with violating freedom of speech.
No paper publication has to tolerate abuse because it simply refuses to publish anything by people who offend. I suspect that Gather leaders would prefer see its service degenerate into chaos rather than interfere in something for the good of its decent and honest members because it fears litigation.
John, be assurred that you will be on my list to invite to the new service. I will find out today how to invite friends (as individuals) to join the new service and to link with others they know from Gather, as "friends."
It's a shame that good people like Kevin and so many others who have worked so hard to make Gather an incredible place to meet other like-minded people and new friends has sunk to the point where one of the most common topics discussed is how to escape from the bad guys that Gather has allowed to continue sniping.
It's easier for me to go to a police station and obtain a legal document that prevents a stalker from getting near me in person (restraining order) than it is to secure similar protection from Gather.
Gather, in its fear of litigation, has turned a blind eye on abuse within its ranks. As Kevin said (above), "unless you are somehow feeling physically threatened," Gather will likely do nothing. What would prove that, my death?
Gather believes, in its wisdom, that emotional abuse means nothing, that physical abuse is all that matters. Even its most ardent supporter, Kevin, states that.
Here is something I wrote not so long ago: "Our world is full of many tragedies but the biggest tragedy is the one that is bred from ignorance."
www.tri-umphs.com
I think that you may have read too much into my prior comment. I did not mean to infer that I think Gather is cold and heartless, and will only take action after you are dead, or have a knife at your throat. Not at all. However, there is not much in their TOS that covers hurtful comments from another member...unless they cross the 'line'. That 'line' however can be somewhat nebulous, and therefore the interpretation is subjective.
There have been members removed for the offensive comments they have made in the community. However, in most of those cases (that I am aware of), that is about all these individuals did. They made very little positive contribution elsewhere. In your case, the member commenting on your work is well known for childish, hurtful comments. However, he does contribute worthwhile content and comments elsewhere on Gather...or at least they are not hurtful. Hence, the 'case' to remove someone like this grows much weaker.
For some reason, this member chooses to devalue your work, and ridicule your statements. Many of us on Gather have our detractors, including myself, but this is especially true for members that publish opinion pieces, or work which is otherwise subject to debate. The fact that he appears fixated on your work may be due to a misunderstanding, or simply because he does not like your icon. In either case, it boils down to a squabble between two members, and something Gather would rather not get involved in, and really can't (considering the number of squabbles going on within Gather every day) --- in my opinion.
If this behavior is persistent, then, as John suggests, I would copy key examples of his comments, and send them to MaryAnne Flynn, and also to David Cooperstein. Keep your message short, but I would request their opinion as well as ask for their assistance in resolving this. You are a valued member on Gather, and have been a featured writer several times. Thus, they would not want to lose an asset such as yourself to the abhorrent behavior of another. They may be willing to send him a note asking him to refrain from comments that have no value other than to demean the author....especially considering that you are far from his only target.
Before, during, or after this, I might also suggest sending him a note yourself, asking him for some additional feedback on your work, or why he has such a special love for you. Perhaps the two of you can work this out. You can also try to engage him in your comment thread by asking him to explain his statements. He makes negative remarks, but doesn't appear to provide an explanation for them, or offer his opinion beyond a few words (from what I could see). He might offer thoughts of more substance if you ask him to elaborate, even if it is on a hurtful comment.
Beyond that, there is always the option of drawing more attention to it, and him, through a public article asking for input. However, that may provide him with greater incentive.
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Know what's up on Gather this month? - See the event calendar HERE.
As an additional suggestion, you might also include similar comments he has made to other members in your message to MaryAnne and David. If you can show a pattern of behavior, it will go a long way towards strengthening the case for their involvement.
A perusal of his comment listings should prove fruitful.
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Shhhh.... Find out about Gather 'Cheat Codes' HERE.
However, to suggest that one member should not be removed for his abusive comments (with more than one person, if I understand you correctly) because he makes positive contributions elsehwere is like saying that a person should be excused of murder because he saves many lives in his charitable work.
He is fixated on me for some reason. It's not a good or healthy reason.
Your explanations (above) seem to justify why Gather should go on allowing abuse because it is not of a physical nature or the recipient (me) does not feel physically threatened.
As I said above, Gather's most ardent supporter is prepared to excuse Gather for allowing emotional abuse.
I will not send any of the comments about this person to the Gather gods you mentioned because, as you suggested, it's highly unlikely they were respond.
Whaat you have convinced me of is that leaving Gather is the best thing for me. I don't need any of the crap that I am many others are suffering. Society has police who enforce harrassment laws and judges that issue restraining orders. Gather has no protection for its innocent members.
The Gather terms of service mean nothing. They, like many laws, do nothing but limit the freedoms of the innocent.
Thank you for your considerable efforts on this matter. However, I am now convinced that it's in my own best interests to leave Gather in favour of a forum that has leadership that will give some hope for freedom of expression (that is not abusive) to its members.
Even my wife wants me to leave Gather because she is concerned about how this strange situation is affecting my whole life. That is the Kiss of Death.
It's not the bad guys that have won. It's Gather that has lost. I will appear elsewhere and rebuild in a safer environment.
Gather is no longer safe.
I think Bill has answered your questions, but I would add that the situation with gift cards extends beyond Canadian members. ALL members outside of the US cannot join the cash program, or really use the gift cards, as some of the Gather Points Partners do not operate in their country. B&N will ship to other countries, but I am uncertain of additional cost, or countries that they do not service.
Therefore, some US members receive gift cards on behalf of other members living outside the states, and either send the cards in the mail, or redeem them, and ship the purchased products.
Gather is working on a solution (I have heard) for Canada, and may be very close to getting this issue resolved. We have been told early 2007.
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Dial-up user? - Learn to speed up your Gather experience HERE.
I really wish that you would step back for a moment, take some time, a deep breath, and reconsider leaving Gather based upon my advice!
I am sorry if I did not provide the answer you were looking for. It is only my opinion. I was trying to be objective, and look at this situation realistically. I felt that it was in your best interest to not fill you with positive expectations. In my opinion, this member's actions need to be addressed.
However, Gather won't do anything if you do not contact them, and provide them with the information they would need to take some action. To do nothing, and give up something that you enjoy, and deprive the community of your participation does you, and all of us, a disservice. You would be letting this member win over you, and also sets a precedent for others that come after him. I respectfully suggest that you take a stance on this, be the leader that you are, and champion to get something done...but don't just give up. It's not worth it Bill!
I have written an article that explains how to add boldface, as well as other formatting, to comments and Gather Mail messages. Please follow the link at the end of this comment. Please note that my 'guide' reflects the old Gather design (before the orange comment bubbles), but the commands are the same!
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Add boldface or italics to your Gather comments - Learn how HERE.
I used the word "discouraged" in one of my comments above. I thought I had also used the word "depression" but on rereading the comments it seems I did not. I am quite depressed today. When I reach the point of wondering what things around my house I could use to end my life, that's a clear sign of depression.
This depression was not caused by the stalker, but he was one of the contributors. Maybe the endless cloudy days and rain have caused me to need more vitamin D (to prevent SAD). I already take a daily supplement, but maybe the lack of sunlight has caused me to need more.
[NOTE: Anyone who expresses that they feel depressed and are considering suicide is seeking a way out of it. The likelihood of that person actually committing suicide at that time is very low. Truly suicidal people may have given warnings that were ignored in the past, but they seldom give warning immediately before they do the deed. This is general information, not specific to my current emotional state.]
Liz, I am not a fighter. Nor do I consider myself a leader. I hold mirrors up for those who need them and light the murky path for those who look for other ways.
But you are a scary enough person that I will obey you. (ROTFLMAO) Thank you.
If Gather is serious about building and maintaining a spirit of community, it must provide a platform and method by which community offenders can be revealed and dealt with in a manner acceptable to the community. So far as i can see, it does not at this time.
For one thing, there must be a method by which members can unsubscribe offenders who are not part of their network. I can see no reason why anyone should be able to subscribe to a member's publishings without either that member's agreeing or without that person being part of the member's network already.
To allow anyone to subscribe to another member's publishings without being part of that member's network is a prescription for trouble. And trouble we have.
Gather needs to take a leadership role in providing a method by which standards can be known by every member and enforced more easily when they are violated.
Note that I am not asking for protection from Gather. I can easily leave and invite my best network friends to join me elsewhere. I have options. I have not ben backed into a corner. I have done this before with a group that had a global scale--it's still in operation.
Where is the Gather group or special forum sponsored by Gather, Inc. whereby Gather members can express their concerns about the health of the system? Right now it's haphazard, at best. No one on Gather's board needs to pay attention to anything so long as only key individuals on Gather's board learn about the evidence that a troubled member compiles. They can ignore what few know about.
(Can you see my depression disappearing as i write? If so, you are perceptive.)
Note too that if you are in my network and you do not receive notification of an article by me in more than two days, it is highly likely that I have flown the coop. There is way too much talk about offenders by good Gather members and no perceivable evidence that Gather leaders are prepared to do anything about it. The message there (be it true or not) is that (as Gather has been accused of in the past) Gather wants to build its membership and it doesn't care about who gets hurt in the process.
Why? The owners of Gather can sell a huge base of members for a fortune, as has happened recently with other big services. Fortunes are being made this way, just as they were in the DotCom bubble days.
I am still hoping that this new service I mentioned above (that's still in beta and that I have been using for a month or so, with great success) will have systems in place to provide reasonable protection for its members. Every community needs laws, police, courts and prisons, so Gather needs some system other than the one in place now if it wants to be considered as a viable community for respectable members who publish well reasearched and considered thought.
Hey, I never said I was perfect or bulletproof.
If you read the article now you will see that the stalker has identified himself in a new comment and had the temerity to once again turn what he is doing to me around and pretend that I have been doing the same thing to him.
No one will ever convince me that FOX-NEWS does not teach (improper) debating skills to its viewers. The US administration learned from them and now the average joe who needs someone to hurt to make himself feel better is learning too.
I have been thinking about his and have concluded that some people who are unable to feel emotions (or very little of them) develop a jealous hatred for those who can. They always try to hurt or put people down and they never express any real emotion themselves.
Check out any comments from such people in the future to see if they show any sign of emotional scope or magnitude.
feedback@gatherinc.com
"They will be able to help you."
That's one official response.
I want to stand up and take full credit for my wicked, evil, demented, misguided, and un-nice acts. Yes, if the truth be known, I am Mr. Bill's infamous stalker. I confess. Not only that, I take considerable pride in my efforts to expose the Billl Allin is obviously a very sensitive, and whiney, guy. He also has a tendency to resent anyone who disagrees with what he considers his god-given insight into the font of all wisdom.
Bill fails to mention, naturally enough, that he has impugned me personally, and repeatedly, accusing me of being everything except a vampire—"mentally deranged", "insane", and even, incredibly, "a potential rapist and serial killer"—based on some sort of moronic instant psychological analysis he seems to feel qualified to offer. Should I, perhaps, consider a defamation of character suit against HIM? Hm. Something to think about all right.
To tell you the truth, if anyone is suffering from any kind of psychopathology around here, I'm afraid it may be Mr. Bill. I think he's definitely showing symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. I have urged him to seek help, but, so far, it seems, he seems to be resistant to admitting that he has a problem.
For my part, I freely admit to having ridiculed many of Bill's more mendacious, inane and inaccurate statements. I encourage anyone, and everyone, to look up and read Bill's more recent articles, along with the comments I have left concerning them. I do, indeed, have a rather low opinion of his work. His holier-than-thou attitude I find quite obnoxious. He has a tendency to spew sweeping generalizations with no facts to back them up. His writing is, when it isn't utterly incomprehensible, pathetically inept. I could go on and on, and I will, if need be.
Incidentally, I am far from being the only person here who considers many of Bill's statements to be ill-informed, internally inconsistent, shallow and mundane. And, if necessary, I can refer you to their comments published on Gather.
Freedom of speech necessitates that sometimes one has to hear things he or she might rather not hear, including personal criticism. Bill's thin skin is one, among many, of his less appealing character traits.
As far as I know this is an open forum, where everyone is free, and even encouraged, to express their opinions. That is exactly what I do, have done, and expect to continue to do in future. Some may not like it. That is unfortunate. Bill, it seems, is especially unfortunate. If he wants to tuck his keyboard under his arm and go off in a huff, well, all I can say is, too damn bad. I honestly don't think he'll be missed—at least by those who have any regard for
The Gather terms of service mean nothing. They, like many laws, do nothing but limit the freedoms of the innocent."
That's right, Bill. Yell and scream and stomp your feet, and hold your breath until you turn blue. Typical Bill behaviour. If you can't have it YOUR way, it's the highway for you. Bon voyage!
Nevertheless, I would simply like to say this:
Bill: If you want to try and get me bounced from this forum, all I can say is, go for it, man. If the honchos here choose to listen to your demented, crybaby protestations that you are being "stalked", "persecuted", "emotionally abused", and, generally, pissed off, because someone with a fully functional brain calls you on your inane pontificating, that's fine by me. I don't think I want to be involved in a club that has you as a member.
People who do not welcome comments from others have the option of publishing ONLY to certain people. If comments violate TOS, the author can contact Gather staff (not other members) and the comment will be removed. Those are the facts. I have published my personal opinions on the topic, but not under the guise of 'helping' new people who might believe I am either a Gather or a member whose opinion counts more than any other member's - I publish my opinions clearly as opinion pieces.
Just yesterday, you sent me a personal e-mail saying this:
"I've read some of other comments, and you make some good points and express yourself well. Sorry our paths haven't crossed before. "
Now you seem somewhat ambivalent. I don't understand.
Check out any comments from such people in the future to see if they show any sign of emotional scope or magnitude.
Oh, yeah? Do you REALLY want an emotional response to your tripe? OK, then, here you go: "YOU SUCK!"
I haven't commented here as there are some issues that you and Bill obviously need to work through. This article is meant to help members with 'how-to' questions, and not for arbitrating disputes between members. I am just a member here, and have no authority. I appreciate the fact that Bill came to me as a friend, and I provided him my advice in that capacity. I endeavor to tell others what they need to hear, and that is sometimes not what they want to hear.
As for my comments to you, I have found you to be articulate and represent yourself well in the brief oppprtunity I have had to review your articles and comments (hence my statements to you previously). However, in my opinion, you also act in a manner I do not agree with. Statements like "YOUR skull" in the game article the other night, can be taken as mildly threatening, or at least disturbing (when taken in context). Some of your comments to Bill were also very immature, and were merely left to instigate or to hurt him, as they offered nothing of substance...just name calling. This is something I strongly disagree with, and have no respect for.
There may be mitigating circumstances, or perhaps your comments were considered by you to be 'tit for tat', but on the surface they do not paint a flattering picture of you. Bill might be guilty of the same, although I haven't had an opportunity to look at both sides equally, and I probably won't (as I have little time to get involved in the disputes of other members...since I have enough of my own!)
I hope that the two of you can work this out, and find a way to peacefully coexist, or at least stay in separate corners.
Yet another serving of Mr. Bill's tripe stew.
Many of the questions I am asked are NOT contained in the FAQs. As well, there are many errors in the FAQs that Gather has not rectified as of yet. I also go out of my way to identify that I am not a Gather employee, and that my advice, is merely that...advice, and personal opinion.
If you feel that I have provided information to members that is inaccurate, please let me know.
It is members like you that remind me of what a great community Gather is!
Why are you giving the impression that YOU WORK FOR GATHER! YOU DON'T!! I find it very disingenuous that you claim that you have went out of your way to identify that your not a Gather employeee, when I first joined you spammed a email to my account as if you worked for gather and I should check out your "New members should read this" link
This will conclude this week's 'Sunday Help Series' session.
Until next Sunday, you may publish any questions to the Gather Help Forum, at the link at the end of this comment.
See you next Sunday!
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Questions about Gather? - Ask other members in the Gather Help Forum.
NYou also have a link to a "Gather Help Forum". It appears to be an official Gather forum created by someone who works for Gather. The banner only displays "Gather Help Forum" , while the actual group name also includes "member to member". To me this is an obvious attempt to give new members the impression you work for gather, and also by putting "member to member" in small print, a way to get around any conflicts with gather policies!
If you read that mail message again, you will see in the first sentence I state that "I am just a member, like you". I also mentioned it again, within the linked article.
I can't do anything about members not comprehending what they read...as there is only so much that can realistically be done.
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Check out great Tips & Tricks for using Gather HERE.
For new members who are not familiar with Gather IT APPEARED TO ME TO BE FROM AN OFFICIAL GATHER EMPLOYEE. YOU LINKED TO OFFICIAL GATHER SITES!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!! ITS TRICKING PEOPLE, LIKE YOU TRICKED ME AT FIRST!!
Also, you need to read the group description(s) for the Gather Help Forum, both long and short. You will see statements there that also clearly identify the group as member run, and not associated with Gather, Inc.
Once more, I can't help it if members don't read the information provided.
Yes, in extremely small print, in a very equivocal fashion!! Do you seriously think your convincing anyone by your condenscending answers that you work for Gather??
This depression was not caused by the stalker, but he was one of the contributors. Maybe the endless cloudy days and rain have caused me to need more vitamin D (to prevent SAD). I already take a daily supplement, but maybe the lack of sunlight has caused me to need more.
[NOTE: Anyone who expresses that they feel depressed and are considering suicide is seeking a way out of it. The likelihood of that person actually committing suicide at that time is very low. Truly suicidal people may have given warnings that were ignored in the past, but they seldom give warning immediately before they do the deed. This is general information, not specific to my current emotional state.]
Liz, I am not a fighter"
Oh, NO, Bill, you don't mean it, do you? I certainly hope that you are merely making a pathetic bid for sympathy with your empty threats of offing yourself. PLEASE, Bill, take another vitamin pill--or the whole bottle, if need be. Lord knows, the world would be so sadly bereft if we lost your brilliant mind. DON'T DO IT BILL!!
Sorry for adding an off topic post but I hate bullies.
TY Kevin V for all you do.
"I wouldn't be surprised if more people didn't notify gather about your behavior considering the comments you've left on this thread alone."
Good grief! If this ends up being the only example of this terrible harassment I read then I say get a life! Who on earth told people that Gather was going to be your Elementry School Primcipal? They are trying to make a buck off of a bunch of "writers."
I've heard so much "I'm telling" and "I'm taking my ball and going home" on this site. The first week I was here a member was telling me about contacting Gather over creditable (her words I think) death threats. Death threats from a someone pretending to be a sumarian goddess!
PS And I too thought Kevin worked for Gather for a long time. I think it is his icon.
Know what? I couldn't care less about Brownie points. I'm here to participate in some meaningful discourse, and I have a low tolerance for mediocrity and supercilious preachiness. All I can say to poor Mr. Bill, or anyone else who is similarly "sensitive" about being criticized is this: If you can't take the heat...(I think you know the rest.)
Kevin and Bill are a great asset to Gather. I appreciate them both.
Bill & Kevin, for you: