It was brought to my attention by one of my contacts that Jackie Beltran and Senobia T. , two of the most prolific pro-illegal immigrant authors on Gather, last signed on to Gather on November 8.
My contact raised this question....Could Jackie and Senobia be the same person ?
I'm not so sure that they are the same person. I haven't noticed any similarities in their writing styles or comments. However, considering the fact that both Jackie and Senobia have practily vanished from the Gather scene since the elections took place, I must wonder if they were paid advocates for the pro-illegal side, or perhaps they were being paid by a particular politician or political party. If this the case, now that the elections are now over, perhaps they are no longer needed.
Either way, I find it to be a bit odd that Jackie and Senobia haven't been active on Gather since the elections.
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Comments: 56
1. I do not think they are one and the same person. Snobia has footprints all over the web, and if you read some of her ramblings, her whole story seems to fall apart.
2. I think Jackie might have gotten her fingers slapped....according to her posts, she was actually violating law, while working for a governmental organization, and her posts laid out the proof. Think about it...if those posts were brought to the attention of the Department of Education in Washington DC, and embarrassing questions posed to them, it's going to create and issue.
I do think they perhaps knew/know each other on some level, even if through the internet.
The other theory...they think the new found Democratic control of both House and Senate makes AMNESTY a done deal.
I used to have this thought about Jackie, but never pursued it. Her position on illegal immigration is strictly a need to keep her job.
The agency she works for was created to provide services to citizen migrant workers.
I think all migrant workers today are illegal aliens.
If there were no illegal aliens, there would be no need for that entire agency. Why is it still here?
As I drive by houses being built as well as construction sites where I live, I only see Americans working, which is proof that Americans will work in construction.
BTW, The area where I live has some of the MOST AFFORDABLE HOUSING in the United States, so your theory is a bit off base.
We do need more port security, I'm with you on that one.
" Of course, I'm hoping the immigration issue will split the Republican party. I would rather the Confederate-flag-waving, trailer-dwelling red necks leave the GOP."
So, the idea of a Nationalistic Identity, Culture, History is revulsive to you.
Seems you really qualify for the hyprocrisy and elitistism preached by Democrats. Not to mention the focus on the issue of class-warfare.
Need not worry about housing or any other industry. Free markets take care of themselves without illegals or government intervention.
You work in construction, right ? Do you have to hire illegal immigrants in order to keep your costs down, and housing and buildings affordable ?
They are one and the same. Leaving our ports as well as our borders unsecured allows both illegal immigrants and potential terrorists to enter our country.
BTW... I live in a small town, and I know the contractors as well as their employees, and there are no illegals working in construction in my area. My fault, I didn't make that clear in that comment.
Also, so you heard that the contractors in your area are hiring illegal immigrants ?
" I only rate articles if I like them "
So Tom, if you don't like my article, perhaps you should click that X in the upper right hand corner of your screen and go somewhere else.
" I know that many illegals are working construction in my area because that's what builders are saying "
" I know for a fact that contractors in my area hire illegals to cut costs "
So Tom, You know for a fact that contractors in your area are hiring illegals to cut costs because that's what the builders are saying ? I have an Iltallian friend who say's that he is in the Mafia...Get the point ?
Like I said, my area has some of the MOST AFFORDABLE HOUSING in the U.S. , and the houses are being built by American workers. People are selling their houses in Chicago, New York, California, Detriot , Atlanta and Florida and moving here because of the affordable housing, and they have money in the Bank from selling their houses back home.
Guest workers....we have a process for Guest Workers to enter America to do certain jobs....ILLEGAL ALIENS are not guest workers. Do the math. Everyone talks about how we need illegals to put food on our table....that requires 1.2 million workers...even if every one of those workers were illegal, what about the other 13 million here doing work in other sectors where they are STEALING American jobs?
Good night everyone, and peace!
I have to ask this question.... What is your entry level wage vs what your competitors are paying illegal workers ?
There are approximately 100,000 former residents of New Orleans now residing in Houston. Most of them are on some sort of government support.
Am I to beleive these illegals are stealing the jobs of those folks in Houston?
There are 5 million or so unemployed people in the US now. If you remove 12 million employed illegals, who will repalce them?
Going rate for an illegal is $100 a day here in New York.
Depending on their experience, the rate I pay my sub-contrators (everyone I hire is considered a self employed independent contractor as it makes my life easier) is between $150-200. They have to pay taxes out of that money....the various taxes they have to pay eat up around 1/3 of the pay...so, if you take my low end pay scale, you can see the difference very clearly.
If you are on a job with say three workers on site, that's suddenly a $750 difference in weekly labor costs. Putting it another way, someone hiring illegals can hire 1.5 more workers for the same money during that week.
1. Some of the jobs eliminated would no longer be needed. How many jobs have been created and filled by illegals in jobs taking care of the needs of illegals?
2. Even more of those jobs would not be needed, as many Americans would regain over time pay and hours they have lost over the past 15 years.
Been real busy lately and haven't had time to blog. Jackie and Senobia gone? I'm good with that. It was getting tiresome to have to constantly school them about our immigration system. They spread a lot of disinformation.
Please tell me about those jobs creqated to take care of illegals? Where are they and are you saying people would lose their jobs if illegals went home?
Then why are those welfare recipients in Houston not back in New Orleans repairing their city?
Are you aware that without immigrants our population would not be increasing or do you choose to ignore this fact?
Any job will always be there... only at a higher price.
If anyone is looking for a group of people to be 100% your deluding yourself.
Why aren't the welfare recipients working, many reasons. Some may not have the skills, some towns require a licensed person to do some jobs, some areas may not yet allow it's citizens back, some insurance companies haven't paid off ( because damage was due to a "flood" and not a storm, which wasn't covered in their policy), some companies did pay but so little it didn't pay to start, some materials may not be available, if they did relocate to work where would they stay ( illegals can stay 20 to a house, Americans can't,I will be fined $1,000 per day if more than 2 unrelated people reside in my home town), your job is only worth what it would cost to replace you. So if illegals are undermining our economy by working for less money than some Americans are getting from welfare,why would they work????
Let me understand this NO immigrants NO births??? You either don't get out much or your drinking way too much coolaid.
I don't mind if LEGAL immigrants increase our population but if a stroke of a pen is going to illegal legal, then stroke some more and free all prisoners, think of the money we could save. After all this IS all about the money we could save by hiring these ILLEGALS! Imagine paying 20 cents a lb more for tomatoes or paying $20,000 more for a $400,000 house MY GOD how will we ever survive?
First of all, I don't buy into that 5,000,000 or 4.4% unemployement rate. Do those numbers only include those who are drawing unemployement benifits?
Also, who will replace the 12 million illegals if they are deported?
How about taking the lazy butts who are drawing welfare and food stamps and make them work for it? Also, how about taking the criminals who are in prison for non-violent crimes and putting them to work?
There are ways to replace the 12 million illegals if they are deported.
The meat packing industry is run by illegals, as are sawmills,and gins. The maids and janitors in your hotels, the dishwashers and the busboys in your restuarants and the folks cutting the lawns and doing the construction work are illegals. Who wants those jobs?
I spent six weeks last fall volunteering with the Katrina cleanup. There were thousands of people from all over the US and at least one from Canada plus bus loads of Latino laborers. We all stayed in tents, trailers, make do sheds and wherever because we wanted to help and were willing to work.
One misconception about the New Orleans evacuees is that they were home owners. Most lived in rental houses including public housing. They are now in Houston and other cities where they have elevated the crime rates. Many are on some form of dole and are not even vaguely interested in gainful honest employment.
Timothy V
Unemployment number do not include those who are no longer drawing unemplyment checks. Those who have exhausted there eligibility are considered to be unavailable for work.
Tom M.
A friend who owns a sawmill has a 100% Mexican workforce now. 20 years ago his employees were 100% black. About ten years ago in desperation he hired his first Mexican because his absentee numbers on Monday and Friday left him with less than enough people to run the whole mill. He has replaced those who were chronic no shows with Mexicans. I think if you look around and talk to business people, they will tell you the same or a similar story.
Many American workers want to make top dollar but they do not want to have rules to follow and they do not want to do the dirty work, the strenous work or the hot or cold work.
In the October "Smithsonian" magazine is an article "300 Million and Counting" by Joel Garreau. This article deals with a serious world problem.
In order for any population to maintain its numbers each couple must have 2.1 children. Our replacemnt rate in the US is presently 2.03 including legal immigrants. Spain and Italy both have rates of 1.3 and all of Europe are below maintenance levels.
It has been known for some time the birth rate of countries is an inverse function of its standard of living-the more affluent the lower the birth rates. The fact that the most industrialized nations are not replacing themselves while the undeveloped nations are growing rapidly is a worrisome reality.
With our diversity we can see the result on a muted scale of this trend within our country as the birthrate among minorities soars as the rate among more affluent majority families plunges. The projection of this trend is interestingly scary.
This is a factor in dealing with the illegal immigrant problem and should be considered in any legislative discussions.
I don't know the answer to your question. My guess would be that one or the other of them found a group where people were willing to discuss the topic more intelligently, and they both went there.
Since you say that " pro illegal " is inaccurate terminology, then just what is the " accurate terminology ". I really need the answer to that question.
I used to sympathize with the illegal immigrants until the owner of a Mexican restaurant told me that he could get Social Security Cards faked. He said that he could get a fake number, or even a genuine SS number that either belonged to a living U.S. citizen or a dead U.S. citizen, and it all depended on the price that one was willing to pay. He also told me that he could get Greencards as well as Kentucky drivers licenses faked. Then he told me that he could arrange for me to marry his neice who was in Mexico if I would agree to pay her smuggler's fee ( btw he made the offer ) which was $2500.00 to the Coyote. Of course I refused.
All of this made me stand back and go " hmmmm "
I'm as assistant manager for a nationwide retailer, and I do agree with you about the failing work ethic of "SOME" American workers. I had 3 employees out sick last night, and 3 tonight, and one of them was a " no call-no show " both days, needless to say that she no longer has a job. It's funny that these workers only get sick or have to leave town because of a family emergency only on weekends.
But on the other hand, I have some very good workers with perfect attendance records, both part time and full time. By far my best employee is a PART TIME college student.
Even considering all of this, I refuse to resort to hiring illegal immigrants as a solution. Before someone jumps on this and asks how I know the difference between legal and illegal immigrants, keep in mind that I've dealt with ICE agents before and I know how to spot fake documents.
While I do not support illegal immigration, Bill raises some good points and good data about immigration itself. We need to open our borders more and allow more LEGALIZED immigration. Hell, if our economy needs these workers, let's let them in and track them. Let's tax them. On the flip side, if we allow them to come in legally, it will decrease the need for coyotes and other dangerous bordering crossing games. That means, we can actually spend our money on border security against those assholes who want to blow us up and not on those who want to work.
Unfortunately, we will never allow MORE legalized immigration because the xenophobic, union card carrying workers as well as many unemployed, but too good for menial labor workers will protest it.
If our government opens up things as you suggest, our country will be overrun.
One thing I learned working with some illegals during the Katrina cleanup was that not all of them want to become citizens. Many simply want to earn enough to build a house, but a farm, put running water in their home or some other finite objective.
They can live on a fraction of what it would cost to live here.
This whole situation is a picture of chaos evolving from the inability of bureaucrats and/or politicians to identify and address problems. Based of past performance, congress will beat this problem to death in the media then inact some irrelevant legislation that will quiet things for a few years but not solve the problem.
I feel the only way to ever know who is here and where they are is to involve employers in such a way they are required to report any change in address of immigrant employees. Temporary employee agencies should definitely be a part of this solution.
I also feel immigrant should have a separate social security program unless they intend to pursue citizenship. This may be a problem since SS has a significant amount of payments from illegals in escrow and will be loathe to give up this windfall income. Of course, our legislators have been not had the character to admit to the need to adjust our present SS system. Maybe this will help bring that to a head.
Maybe they were abducted by (illegal) Aliens?
I don't think they were the same person. I had noticed they were both MIA I also noticed that their sidekick Debbie ( I think its Debbie C.) all the sudden stopped posting the Pro Illegal Immigration articles. I think you may be on to something.
"If we completely stop the flow of guest workers it will ruin our economy. Next time you drive by a house being built, check out the laborers. What do you think will happen if those workers disappear? Housing will become unaffordable."
You are crazy. They would then have to start paying legal, US citizens fair and competitive wages. Housing will remain the same cost, it will simply decrease the large profits that the companies are currently making.
"Am I to beleive these illegals are stealing the jobs of those folks in Houston?"
Yep, that is definitely what is happening. The illegals have moved into the area and they are paying them the slave wages that legal, US citizens cannot afford to work for. Based on this, the are going to change the demographics of the entire area.
Somewhere on this site is an article about this, you will probably have to do a search.....www.americanpatrol.com
I'm thinking that since the elections are over, they are no longer needed, and yes I noticed that about Debbie C. as well. Debbie is active, but she seems to be staying away from the illegal immigration articles.
As I posted , construction will go on without illegal immigrants. None of the contractors in my area hire illegals, and we have some of the most affordable housing in the U.S.
You know, I almost...notice I say ALMOST....hope that you rabid anti-illegal folks get exactly what you're asking for. If you do, you will be like we people in the disability community, trying to decide whether you pay your bills, buy your necessities, or eat because the price of everything will have risen so high that you and your children will not have a vegetable or piece of fruit that you couldn't raise yourself....then, think back on all your impassioned, imperious arguments and know that you have truly gotten precisely what you asked for..
Obviously you didn't read my last comment. Prices won't go up if the illegals are gone, and the area where I live is proof of that.
I'm sorry that the illegals have to choose between paying their bills or eating, but they should hash that out in their country of origin, not ours. It's not our problem.
So should I feel sorry for an illegal immigrant who has stolen someone else's identity, S.S numbers,ect and ruined the person's credit rating who they stole the S.S. number from,all in the name of feeding their family ? A bank robber could use that same argument.
Actually it's the employers who are getting their pockets padded from the cheap labor of illegal immigrants who will pay the price if the illegals go bye bye. Yes, they may try to pass the cost on to us, but we also have this thing in America called competition, which will bring the prices down eventually just in case their prices do go up, which I don't think will happen in the first place.
Around here, the Mexican restaurants hire illegal immigrants, and their prices are outragious. Taco Belle hires legal Americans, and their prices are much cheaper , get the point ?
Further, Taco Hell will always be cheaper than a privately owned restaurant because they buy their ingredients by the boxcar load...multiple box car loads....and they're buying the absolute cheapest, most chemically and most industrialized version of so-called food. Get a grip, Timothy.
Some of us prefer to use our writing talent (provided that you have some) in ways that are more far reaching and monetarily palatable than a BN gift certificate.
Some of us have lives offline. (GASP! It's true.)
Some of us have realized that we've wiped better crap than the reponses that thrive here off the bottoms of our shoes.
And, might I add - none of your anti-immigrant articles have served to get a single one deported.
Dee...Thank you for your comments!
The net effect? 40 eligible people now have jobs and are being paid the regional average wage for the positions. That was an average increase of $1.23/hr per position plus affordable health care options. The contractors and their subs have the opportunity to get clean and keep working. The same week the suspensions went into effect, we had sales calls from eight contractors that can certify compliance and give us cost incentives to entertain their proposals.
It was a good three weeks.
Thats great news ! I believe that most people forget about the Sarbanes Oxley Act. I'm glad that you brought that up.
That actually says alot about you, doesn't it?
To Dee: I love you - you are one of my favorite people. Forgive me for taking an extended leave - it was not work-related. It was personal.
Timothy and Porgie: I could have died. Does that matter or are we so completely removed from humanity online, that my circumstances are a point of entry rather than concern...
Wow.
Yep, I'm back... ;)
So, LOL...my hands are tied behind my back and YOU get the first punch.
Have fun!
JB
Amen, Tom And it is already beginning to happen.
There is no ready substitute for immigrant labor -whenever we crack down too hard, we have crops that go unharvested and poultry unprocessed, etc.
There aren't enough welfare recipients, unemployed Americans, or any other alleged labor pool to perform the millions of low-pay temporary or seasonal jobs that immigrant workers do.
Republican business men know that there has to be some long-term solution to safely manage and monitor the use of immigrant workers. Hence, the Bush proposals for extended labor visas, guest worker programs, paths to eventual citizenship, etc.
The delicious irony is that the administration of the Snorter in Chief has been so busy cultivating a natavistic, paranoid-fueled suspicion of diversity in America that his Confederate flag-waving, love it or leave it, constituency won't allow him to fulfill his program.
And, this is not the only crack that will appear in the Republican gang.
The fiscal conservatives are already bailing (most wasteful spending of any administration in history), and the small government, get the feds out of my life folks have to swallow the Bush "read my mail, listen to my calls: clap trap.
Urban Americans (now more than the numbers who live in the suburbs), are getting tired of the no stem cell, science-hating creationists, and the continuous pandering to the taliban-like religious fundamentalists.
It's only going to get better for the Democrats.
Happy Days Are Here Again.
No, I haven't been silenced by the feds, dear. The problem is my writing has received extremely positive attention and of course, they want first shot...sigh. That means they have to turn it down before I can publish on Gather.
The political debates take me away from my kids and my writing. It isn't fair to either of them. I will comment but will limit myself as to how politically involved I become. I would rather stick with Immigrant Diaries than waste my time debating issues that can not be solved in an arena such as Gather. The diaries have more strength and scream volumes while the rhetoric just gives one headaches. Would you not agree?
People want to know. They want to understand. It isn't a political motivation that drives them. It is simple humanity. And that, dear Timothy, is stronger than anything you or Porgie or any other Gather presence can overcome. My mistake was thinking the two were somehow related.
They are not.
JB