Do Commenters Have Any Value on Gather?

I am also a commenter, not a writer. Everyone on Gather has value; you just ran into one of those supercilious "I'm better than you are" types. Ignore the jerks online just as you do offline.. not worth wasting bandwith over. And thanks for adding to the beauty of Gather.. where EVERYONE makes a positive difference!

Well, i for one am glad you were goaded, praise The Lord in all things, passion and clarity make a very interesting piece, wish everyone had it. Think of something you really need to say, at your own pace, editor is primary need to a publisher!

Parke;

I think commentors and authors, particularly on Gather, have equal value. It's a symbiotic relationship. Authors become better writers when thoughtful comments are offered on what they've written. Commentors are betters commentors when they're are exposed to the plethora of subjects and topics written about.

To paraphrase the old Stuart Smalley skit from Saturday Night Live; "You're good enough. You're smart enough. And, Gosh darn it, people like you!"

Honestly, Lynn, I get called a jerk here more often than not. I don't see why everyone here is so afraid of other people having and expressing an opinion. How do we spark and sustain a conversation without differing and sometimes critical opinions?

Ann, I do agree, I feel that the writers who rebuff my comments are often reacting out of a defensive posture, because I have posted a critical comment, and they seize on the fact that I have less publishing experience than most. So yes, this piece accomplishes the task of putting "something" out there, although I'm certain the next attack will be "your work is not substantial." In which case I guess I'm going to have to start pulling AP stories and publishing them with a line or two of controversial conjecture, like some other Gatherers are wont to do.

Wilhelmine, thank you for commenting on my article. I enjoy reading your work, although I have failed to tell you so... until now. :)

I think the commenters are extremely important. Some of us love to write and its nice to hear both the positive and the negative regarding our writings. Maybe the author just didn't like your comment.

I suppose now, with this posting, you can claim that you've published. I have several friends who come to Gather only to read. They are not writers, enjoy the variety and sometimes leave a comment. One of them is a great editor but can't conjure an original story of his own. I don't believe it lessens his value as a commenter or critic. In fact, for me it heightens his value because he is focused on the words, grammar, originality and content.

Joe and lise, thanks for the kind words.

David, how did you know that Stuart Smalley is my idol? :) Your description of a "symbiotic relationship" is an apt one. Often, however, I'm made to feel more parasitic than symbiotic 'round these parts... guess it's just my sensitive side coming through.

Kimberly, it is delightful and rare to hear a Gatherer say that it is "nice to hear both the positive and negative." Most often I get the impression I am supposed to be sitting back lavishing praise and adoration while I bite my tongue to pieces. Conversation doesn't go very far when your audience is afraid to say what they really think!

Madame Donna, I agree. I am not a professional editor but my writer friends do lean on me from time to time because they know I read critically and will give them the feedback they're looking for. And I agree; I think creative output and critical reading are two separate skills - sometimes they reside in the same brain, sometimes not.

Parke, if you are an astute reader, feel free to critique any of my work. I came here originally to learn and improve my writing. There are a number of writers here who welcome criticism, correction and even opinion.

Oh how could there be writers without readers?I am by no means a writer but I love reading some of the memebrs stores and Guy's poems are always a treasure to read.

I think commenters are very important. Where would we be without you. I think this article is great and I'm glad you wrote it. I have the feeling you are going to get a lot of people wanting to connect with after having read this article.

Thanks Leigh and Ileen - and Madame Donna, I will be reading your articles. Thanks for commenting.

Thanks Parke, another reader is always welcome.

Ugh, what a cry baby.. I hope you weren't referring to our " crackhead " conversation. Yes I did tell you to write an article before you criticize.. simply because you did it in a very negative way. You commented on my Id name,my story and my morals.. That is not criticism, that's being hateful. You don't even know me. No. I don't think I'm better then you because I have a couple of articles. I just think you have alot of audacity to swoop in on my article with such negative fervor. Now your crying to the rest of the site.. like your innocent and are only here to comment. There is a way to do everything and I did not appreciate your " comment" on my article one bit. You could have expressed your opinion in a better way.

It is certainly true that the MANNER of commenting matters; constructive comments ("I was not clear on how paragraph 2 and paragraph 3 were related") are usually welcome. Mean or judgemental comments ("you wrote XYZ so you are a jerk") are dysfunctional.

One CANNOT determine, merely from reading a piece, what the author's personal viewpoint is, since many people deliberately write to express views they don't personally hold.

One CANNOT determine, merely from reading a comment, what the commenter's state of mind was either.

Best always ... ask friendly questions. It's a good way to learn.

Thank you Lynn.. I don't mind criticism.. It actually helps me to do better ... I understand that it is a part of writing, and that everyone won't like what I write.. And I have horrible editing skills, so I need the proof reading ! However, just trying to get some attention by being negative gets under my skin..

Jane, you are not the first person (and you won't be the last) to tell me that my sometimes opinionated, critical comments are unwelcome because I don't have a library of material published to Gather.com.

The only reason I commented on your ID name was because I feel that it is hypocritical of you to publish a dead woman's full name and accuse her of being a drug addict without having the courage to reveal YOUR identity. Why would you slander a dead woman? And what does my calling you on that have to do with my history of publishing content on Gather? We don't come to Gather devoid of an ethical framework upon which we hang our lives. My opinions regarding the appropriateness of the piece you mention has nothing to do with my or your experience on Gather.com.

I'm not crying to anyone. I'm making a point.

LOL.. well I'm glad you've stopped crying.. commenting on my ID is not your place either. I had that name way before I wrote the article. I"m not hiding Parke. and once again, no slander was intended towards this woman, I don't know why that is so hard for you to understand. Take a look at your comments before you wrote this crybaby article, they are all rude. You are entitled to your opinion, and opinions are needed on a site like this, but why so rude with it.?.. You could've worded your comment much differently, instead of calling me a thief and a coward... I'm insulted and that's that. So cry all you want, try to get sympathy all you want, I really don't care. Just like you, I"m still going to say, write, draw, anything I please..

Debra, thanks for commenting, BTW - I particularly like "cyber gruel."

Lynn, your comment makes sense. The manner in which one comments does make a difference, and I'll be the first to admit that I often get that wrong.

Part of the reason why I don't publish is that I know how valuable my time is and how much I grate at it being wasted by poorly written, poorly edited, poorly thought-out articles. There's no reason for it. There are thousands of people here writing articles every day, and if you can't put your work together in a presentable way, why should anyone read and comment on it? I don't want to add to the mountains of drivel which bury the quality writing. But that's beating a dead horse, isn't it?

Jane, however did I function in this world before you told me where my "place" was? It's not your place to accuse people you don't know of being drug addicts, or slander the dead, but look at you go. I guess I'm just following your lead.

Lynn has inspired me to adopt a kinder, gentler commenting philosophy, however. If I had to do it over again, instead of posting the nasty comments I placed on your article, I would have written the following:

"Please notify the Joliet Herald that you are borrowing their articles to post for profit on Gather.com, and by the way, could you please refrain from accusing dead women of being drug addicts when you have no evidence or stated reason for doing so? Thanks a bunch! *smoochies* LOL LOL LOL LOL"

By the way, the only crying I'm doing is for the family of the woman you're trying so desperately to drag through the mud.

Okay Parke.. all anyone has to do is surf your page to see what a bully you are.. we'll I"m not the one to sit back and take your crap. And yes, the above would have been much more tasteful. Glad to see you payed so much attenttion to it. You keep insisting that I'm slandering, that's your opinion too.. I don't have to justify myself to you. Just stopped by to clarify myself.. If you think I"m looking down on drug addicts, you couldn't be farther from the truth .
looking forward to your wonderful comments, Please keep your tissue handy for your tantrums..
smoochies back to you too..

[twirling my straw hat on the end of my cane]

Glad to be of service, Kenneth.

I don't think it's particularly necessary to publish in order to comment; however, I will say that when I run across a combative commenter, I often go to read the commenter's published material so that I can have a sense of who the commenter is and, frankly, how much credence to give that person's opinion. Some combative commenters are simply a little inept in how they express themselves, but reading their articles shows me who they really are when they're at home, so to speak, and allows me to assess their contributions differently. Other commenters' articles make it abundantly clear that they are nutjobs, or in some way people whose opinions I would not respect under any circumstances, and that too is helpful information.

I think that if a commenter has a habit of being challenging, it's helpful to provide some information about who the commenter is, because it lends credibility. We forget, I think, that this medium does not permit us to hear tone of voice or see facial expression, which is so much of how language works, especially if someone is not a writer by avocation.

It has also always been my contention that more flies can be caught with honey than with vinegar. I think it's very possible to express a strongly dissenting opinion in a gentle manner that allows one's opinion to be heard rather than sparking a hugely defensive response. Of course, you and everyone else is perfectly entitled both to your opinions and to your preferred manner of expressing them, but I suppose the question is this: Do you want to start a genuine debate and exchange of opinions, or do you want to drop a bomb and leave? If you're interested in having someone else see your point, the gentle method will get you much further than the combative method. The difference between these two methods can be as simple as "Have you considered that you might be committing plagiarism by publishing this without citing your source?" vs. "Obviously you stole this from NewsNotes Online."

I believe that this comment may now be longer than your original article, so I'll shaddap now.

Well said David.. Glad to oblige Kenneth..

David, I'm more than a little humbled to be graced by such a well-written and thoughtful comment, so thank you very much for it.

I observe more interactions here, as a rule, than I participate in, and I have watched how the occasional (and gentle) plagiarism tickler is generally received. It goes over like a lead balloon. When commenters post a polite inquiry about the source of certain material they are, more often than not, read the riot act.

Frankly, polite and mannered comments (excepting yours, of course, which are usually sprinkled with a heavy dose of humor) are boring, and they add little to the discussion. I am rightfully accused of posting very few positive comments, but when I do have something positive to say, I find that it is often left impotent and unacknowledged, and what's worse, it often does not merit acknowledgment.

And so, the vinegar. But I will try to find my honey bear bottle and use it once in a while.

(If nothing else, the commenters provide entertainment to those on the sidelines.)

(I know, right? HA!)

10 for the comment section, Parke ;)

Gracias, Juni and Lori.

The polite plagiarism example wasn't a good point-prover, I agree . . . I'm a little slow today, and couldn't think of anything that made better sense :-)

That's an interesting observation about the impotence of the polite comment. I admit that I often don't acknowledge them particularly on my own site, simply because there's not much to say except "Thanks!", unless the commenter has also left me an opening for further conversation, to which I usually respond. Personally, I see the value of the positive comment to be, more than anything, a notice to the article writer that he or she is being read/enjoyed/understood/etc. I write quite a few short generic positive comments simply because I'd like the writer to know that I had a moment of pleasure from reading, even if I don't have anything particularly stimulating to say.

I also think, but forgot to say earlier, that the effectiveness of challenging comments, regardless of the level of politeness with which they are expressed, is largely dependent upon how far away the writer's point of view is from one's own. There are some folks who will, as you rightly remarked, go nuts for no reason about anything. Those are the people to whom one might as well make a sardonic and strongly-worded remark just for the fun of it (and it is fun). But there are also people who are more open-minded, and they're the ones, IMO, who merit the more tactful inquiry, because there's actually a chance of getting somewhere with them . . . or perhaps, of getting somewhere oneself, depending upon the situation.

(BTW, those honeybear bottles kind of creep me out.)

It's the black beady eyes, isn't it?

Hey, as far as I am cncerned you can do only comments if you want. It your choice, who cares what others think? I don't. Its all part of life. : )

Yeah, and the fact that they kind of wear off if you keep the bottle for a long time, giving the impression that the bear is gradually going blind. *shudder*

Perhaps the blindness is a side effect of having all the liquid in their bodies being slowly squeezed out through a hole in their heads...

Thanks for stoppin' by, Marsha! (I cannot resist: Marsha, Marsha, MARSHA!)

famous authors today would not be famous if only writers could read their work... so I am in agreement with you... you should not have to publish to be a part of this community.

Speaking as th person who wrote this article my answer to your question is "yes."

Gee Jane, what gives you the right and not Parke? Something warped in your thinking.

Trish, Wendy, and Nanci - thanks for your comments!

Commenting and writing are two different activities in more ways than one. Some people can naturally springboard off of an idea of another. Some people can come up with the issues that encourage people to springboard. Shouldn't it always be the content and how it informs, entertains and encourages? (Note the latter; it is sometimes very appropriate for a brief comment of appreciation or encouragement.)

Christopher, you bring up an interesting point. If we are all publishing like mad into the oblivion, our opinions and ideas are not being shaped as much as if we exercised a little restraint and focused our attentions on maintaining the conversation, rather than just sparking it. I have learned a lot, for example, from the people who have chosen to comment on this article alone. It is the variety of opinion and diversity of perspectives on Gather that makes it such a rewarding thing to be a part of.

Gives me what right Nanci ?

I mostly comment. There are just some folks on Gather that feel the need to try and make rules for everyone else, nevermind that they're just Gather members like the rest of us.

To comment and disparage Parke while telling him he is wrong for commenting as he does.

I haven't read your thread, only the article and I totally agree. In fact, I think it would be much better to issue more points for leaving comments and maybe less for posting.

Brilliant idea, La Lady.

The same thing that gives him the right to visit my comments and leave derogatory comments. If you want to help someone better themselves , you don't put them down...It only puts them on the offense.

Parke, you are more than welcome to read my articles and comment. Perhaps the person who told you that your opinion meant nothing because you had not submitted an article, was afraid you were another "stalker" in disguise. There have been imitators on here lately so that could be what they meant.

I know that some people come here just to read and comment and have no problem with that.

Thanks for commenting, June. I'm fairly certain the folks who downgraded my comments because I hadn't published any articles yet were just lashing out the best way they knew how. I'm sure if I revisit their articles again I'll be shooed away with contempt for some other deficiency of my being. Like my malformed left ear. Oh well!

Parke,David.....I studied English Litt for my graduation and post grad. But today is the first time I really enjoyed a subject' Criticism'. the way this debate has gone on, just shows there are all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons here.
And Parke, I agree with you that a whole lot of good writing gets drowned by the drivel.
Wish you and David could get together and hold some kind of a literary discussion for all of us to benefit from!

If I were a new Gather member and read the article and comments I would quit. But with experience on Gather now I can read the back and forth of the comments and learn something. And it is little like a verbal boxing match. (I like boxing.) My menter said that conflict often occurs over truth. Both sides have truth and there is not a "right" and a "wrong" opinion. My menter would also say be kind. By kind I think it means to have good intentions even in a negative opinion. Bert

Comments are important and are great ways to find other like-minded people.

But now you are a writer, so I guess that person can back down!LOL

I am more of a comment person myself but I have put out a few storys and things. I think that it is all points to me anyway. It may be that if you do not have anything for people to comment back on they may feel that they can not tell you thank you for posting on there things. Or It could be that when you do not have anything for others to post on then they can not give to a bad rating on your things to get back at you for saying something that they did not like. Something that I have learned about gather is that there is alot of good people to talk with but there are some who like to be mean to others. If you say something that they do not like then they will go to your pages and give you all ones. For what ever reason it does look bad that you do not have any thing for others to post on... but again I say to you it is all points to me. I say who ever would like to say what ever they like it is just fine with me...

I think in the long run commentors may be more valuable because what is the point of writing if no one is reading. I really think everyone is valuable in their own way.

I think a genuine commenter (one who's purpose in commenting is not only to gain points) is worth their weight in gold, and to be frank, not very common on the posts I've read. I do not believe you need to be a writer to be a commenter, and shame on whomever told you that. You should report them for violating the terms of use here. No one is supposed to infringe on anyone's enjoyment of the site.

I'll delete the name, but check out this real comment left here at Gather:

"I've learned that making big long comments gives you more points. Try it and see! It works!! I actually tried and my points would go up like 600 to 800 points overnight!! I mean ramble on as long as you can for every comment. Seriously. It works!!"

How much is that comment worth? And unfortunately there seems to be a whole lot of people like this one leaving comments. My point is, a "real" comment is of definite worth. A points driven comment. as the commenter above apparently does and is encouraging other people to do, is totally worthless.

Personally, I think the points system is corrupting Gather. There are too many people with "points in their eyes" and they're creating too much garbage to wade through.

And for what it's worth, I think your post was well written.