I Just Don't Understand....A friendship Over

Barbara -- It's not about political viewpoints when one friend feels backed into a corner with the other feeling her way of thinking is superior. It's not about who's right and who's wrong. it's about mutual respect. It's about agreeing to disagree. I'm not going to go into politics here even though you are questioning people who share alternative viewpoints as yourself. What I'm concerned about is a friendship. Perhaps to assume she will not vote because her views are opposing to yours is a bit self-righteous. After all, Bush is in office because the majority who thought differently than you voted ...twice. But, this isn't a platform on politics I raise.... it's a platform on respecting a friend's feelings. I feel for both of you, but I really don't understand why the success of a friendship must rely on politically harmonious thinking. Leave politics out and search the soul. A friend is much more valuable than who she chooses to vote for -- which is her constitutional right as it is yours.

Barbara, It is indeed very sad but typical of the right wing lately. look at the campaign they have been running. They attack and attack people personally and try to dictate morality to all of us. I try and try to talk to them but get very tired of being attacked so mercilessly They know the truth otherwise they would not be so defensive or agressive. I wish I could tell you something to help your friend see the light here but I guess people turn a blind eye especially when they have it attached to their religious beliefs. i do not know if that is happening with your friend but Bush certainly ties everything he does with morality and religion. that is why it is so dangerous to mix church and state something that we in the US seem to think nothing of anymore.

rated 10.
i was married to a rightwinger and i loved him dearly. he passed away last year. i'm a moderate republican. on many issues, we agreed, on many issues, we disagreed. we had some lively discussions.
but one thing we did right. we respected each other's opinion. we didn't think the other person was stupid.
that didn't mean that we didn't have tough times. i threatened to throw him out a couple of times, lol.
but i know what you mean.
i have seen partisanship stand in the way of relationships.

P.S. It sounds like you are saying: The friendship is over because she doesn't think like me. Something to think on.

Doesn't sound like much of a loss...

Why discuss politics in the first place? My Mother-in-law does this and ends up alienating herself from everyone. Politics is a personal thing and everyone has a right to their own beliefs. Like someone said ahead of me - agree to disagree and then move on. There are certain topics a flat out refuse to discuss with people...politics is one of them.

What I'm concerned about is a friendship. Perhaps to assume she will not vote because her views are opposing to yours is a bit self-righteous. After all, Bush is in office because the majority who thought differently than you voted ...

Heather, I understand what you are saying but the only reason she would not vote is because she hates to go to the polls, won't wait in line for anything ...I've even suggested she go and early vote as I am doing at the library today, no lines, no hassles...she just doesn't want to bother...
And as far as being self rightious, I guess we are both at fault...all I wanted to know was why, why doesn't she see what is going on in the world instead of wearing blinders on her eyes , the way she wears headphones in her ears listening to right wing broadcasters on the radio as she walks until her legs wont carry her any further...she does that to prevent the world from entering her conciousness.

We've had discussions in the past and went on from there, but I think now she is as happy to be rid of me as she can be...I was the only descenting voice in her very small world

but Bush certainly ties everything he does with morality and religion. that is why it is so dangerous to mix church and state something that we in the US seem to think nothing of anymore.

Kelley, This issue really didn't play into our arguement...although one of the reasons she told me she didn't want Edwards in the office of VP was due to the fact that he is a "slick Lawyer" she dislikes slick lawyers since her divorce...and if I would bring up anything to do with what is going on lately with all the sex scandels she would always bring up Clinton...give me a break...But througthfully,Right wing religion really doesn't pertain to this..we are both jewish..

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Nancy, there are other things we didn't think alike and still got along...this is different

I agree with Carolyn on this one - flat out refuse to discuss politics....I was married to a staunch Republican...and we were both from Chicago!!! haha - anyway - he was involved in corporate and it was Republican all the way...he also passed away 2 years ago..and I am glad at one point in our 43 years of marriage I just decided not to talk about it with him, nor would I let him talk to me about politics..we were 180 degrees apart on this one...on top of that - I have 2 sons - both Republican, and one is also a Fundamentalist (religion) so there is no meeting of the minds with those two...and I refuse to let them get me in a corner...its that flat do not discuss..I tend to be liberal, Democrat and lovingly the kids refer to me as a socialist..my other son and my daughter are my support tho...so not all is lost...but its very difficult when someone you love and care dearly can have an understanding of this situation so different then yours....friendships are valuable...apologize, and keep it simple letting her know that politics is off limits and you value her more than any darn politician! There is an old saying - which my husband taught me!!! God bless him..".You can take the horse to water but you can't force it to drink"

Donna and Carolyn...I understand where you are coming from and we did have that agreement for a while, but after months and years of listening to her complain about all her troubles regarding money and insurance which could be related to things the government might have been able to change with a different congress or Presidentwith other priorities than Bush has. I just had to add my opinion..

For the record, I have a wonderful uncle and son-in-law, both republicans, who I have non-verbal aggreements not to discuss politics with..we get along fine cause they don't kvetch all the time about things like she does, which somehow are related to what's going on in Washington...

But Barbara, you know as well as I do that her money woes and her healthcare woes have NOTHING to do with politics...and everything to do with the choices that SHE has made over the years. Nobody - no politician, no friend, no family member...nobody will save her from herself. You vote someone new into office and s/he fixes all the $$ and healthcare issues...you know she will find other things to whine about and other ways to destroy herself and make all of us crazy. There is nothing political about her issues...if you truly value the friendship, drop politics from the conversations...oh, and drop food and calories and fat content and walking and medications and ... hmmm, let's see...what else are we not allowed to discuss with her?? LOL

hmmm, let's see...what else are we not allowed to discuss with her?? LOL

Thats one of the points I was making...to tell you the truth there really isn't anything left for her and I to talk about...it's sad but true

It doesn't sound to me like she lost much of anything. Who are you to arrogantly insist that you know better than she does and that she is totally idiotic for not seeing things your way? Hello - you don't know it all however much you may think you do. She is entitled to her opinions and political beliefs unaccosted by a political bully.

She is well out of the relationship.

See this is one of those things I hate about politics and sports - people get so nutty it destroys relationships and for what????

Well, Barbara you tried to enlighten her and it didn't work out. Friendship means being a good listener. Hopefully, afterTuesday you rekindle and connect on some other kind oflevel. Good luck!

I can't even discuss politics with my own family. Both sets of parents are very Republican, and they can't accept or discuss any other options. I vote for the candidate, not the party. They just don't get that way of thinking, and I don't get theirs. I just respect the fact that they come from a different time and place. We weren't around during the depression or WWII, these experiences formed lasting impressions on that generation. So, we just leave the topic alone.

Barbara, I have ended a few friendships (gladly) this way. I don't care to have friends who will not look at the issues and the truth. Anyone who supports an administration that would rather kill people in other countries than house, feed, medicate, and educate this country falls short of anything I can possibly recognize as a 'friend'.

Sorry Barb but you have to respect a persons request not to get involved in something she knows enflames you. That's why we're still good. We don't discuss politics. We respect each others choices and we leave it alone. A friend is much more valuable than who she chooses to vote for --

Sue S. Your comments are right on. Vote for the candidate and the issues that represent your way of thinking and that you feel affect you and not for the party line.

I make it a point to not get into political or religious arguments. It is not productive in the long run and as you can see it can destroy friendships.

Sandy, I value some of my friendships too much to end them because we don't share the same religious beliefs or political opinions. I prefer we agree to disagree and we can continue being friends without pointing fingers or accusations that could hurt more in the long run. ;-) I have dear friends that practice different religions and some who vote differently than I do in elections. I also have dear friends who practice different lifestyles than I do.....but we are still friends. Some of my friends are very colorful characters and some are a bit of a brown wren like me................If everyone trhought the same as I do, it would be a bit boring ;-)))

I am a firm believer in meeting people where they are at ! I am not going to have any friends if I expect them to be exactly me or to be perfect ! Celebrate what you have in common ,don't concentrate on your differences . We can not change other people , we have to change our selves, and that most often starts with a change of attitude.

Carolyn wrote: "you know as well as I do that her money woes and her healthcare woes have NOTHING to do with politics...and everything to do with the choices that SHE has made over the years."

I wasn't even going to comment on this article other than to tell Barbara, you can't argue with ignorance. And before the right wingers jump down my throat, I'm not saying her friend is "ignorant" as in retarded...but ignorant as to issues, policy effects, and governance. Then Carolyn makes her idiotic statement above.

I guess you'd agree that all the vets returning from Iraq whose payment distributions are held up for 6 - 12 months, with no where to live, and no jobs....made bad choices?

The ppl who worked for ENRON and invested their retirement into the largest Bush backer and rip off company of the millennium, made bad choices. Even though when they tried to sell stock, they were illegally forbidden to, yet the CEO, Director, CFO, Cheney, Bush and several administration officials were dumping the stock faster than fire? Bad choices? (Of curse, 27 former Enron executives and lobbyist's went to work for the Bush administration)

And the poor seniors who are bedeviled by Medicare part D, forced to sign up, forced to pay in some instances 200% more than what they paid prior to Medicare Part D? And where 29 states had to step in to bail out the system so the seniors, pharmacies and others received their drugs and their payments. Bad choices for getting old?

The Census Bureau reports that more than 1.8 million full-time WORKING adults have lost health insurance coverage, because the employers can no longer offer the benefit, and the employee cannot afford to pay the premiums. Bad choice for working in America?

Even though the administration has tooted it's horn about all the new jobs created over the past 6 years, they fail to admit that the wages for these jobs are low, below poverty standards, and offer no benefits. Mainly because of the way they have paved for large employers to ship their jobs abroad! Wages have remained stagnant for the past 6 years, yet inflation, energy costs and college tuition have risen by as much as 70 %. But I guess that is another bad choice for living here.

Actually you re right Carolyn. The friend of Barbara's has made bad choices in her life. She either didn't vote, or she voted for the current administration. It is all our bad choices, because we let these failed policies go unchecked; allowed our Congress to fail in their oversight responsibilities, and failed to address our own Democratic leaders as to how fed we up were becoming.

Thank God we can choose to make better decisions! And next Tuesday will be the ultimate "choice" awards! Democrats will sail to victory!

Now Barbara...you know I am the biggest SF liberal on gather...and proud of it. My two dearest, and longest friendships, are with hard core Republicans. They have no clue as to issues, have no idea who their reps are in Congress. Have little interest in how failed policies affect their lives, and those of our children and grandchildren. But they can tell me every soap star, American Idol contestant, who is divorcing who in Hollywood, and where the next Survivor will be. I know nothing about any of these things, so I allow them to blather on about it, and every now and then, insert some little tidbit that I know they will find offensive. Then I drop the bomb that it is a GOP talking point or policy. And admit if it is a Democratic one.
I'll vote for the candidate, especially in local races, regardless of party affiliation; even though it is considered a mortal sin by my Republican friends to ever consider voting for "the person" the current GOP dogma is never, ever vote for a Democrat, no matter what. And that has led to their current downfall.

I only choose not to align myself with the ignorant that tend to be bully's, narrow minded and incapable of considering both sides; the Hannity and O'Reilly fans, who have no idea about what they are talking about. But America is all about freedom's of choice...and I'd be a hypocrite to dismiss someone I loved because of their political views. I just pick my battles, and realize there are plenty of open minded Republicans, true conservatives (I'm a fiscal conservative) and independents flooding into our party every day. If there is an opening take it. If the gates are closed...just move on.

...one of my best friends is completely opposite than myself in political views...despite our differences we still are friends because we "agree to disagree". Don't let something come between you and a good friend....it isn't worth losing a friend...trust me.

You don't sound like a true friend. She's better off without you.

I think you are making this up to A) slam the Bushies and B) to get points by posting an inflammatory article that will ensure a lot of replies. I give it a 5

After reading all the comments it appears to me that most of those who identify themselves as liberal are the least tolerant of others' opinions. They've characterized conservatives as blind, ignorant, race-baiting, imperialistic, arrogant bullies. While the unidentified and the conservatives appear to be more tolerant of other opinions, agreeing to disagree and remaining friends. Whatever happened to the tolerant left I've heard so much about?

Randy, are you saying you "tolerate" lying, cheating, killing, double standards, ignorance, and think everyone should tolerate those things because you do?

I don't know what to say except reading all these comments certainly displays the diversity of opinion here on Gather..I applaud all those you feel the way I do and argue for a change in Americian policies both at home and abroad. I have a hard time understanding how so many can defend the way things are right now, even when Bush's ratings have gone down so much..but I do have to respect your rights for thinking the way you do..Isn't that the American Way?

But I guess I did overstep myself in talking to her about politics when she so adamantly didn't want it..but I'm the one who has had to listen to her complain about the difficulties and hardships she has had, but is not willing to even think it could be related to the policies of the party in charge and the indifference Bush seems to have about the people in this country who are suffering from the healthcare issues as well as terrible financial worries....when big business gets tax write/offs and we, the ordinary folk are taxed to the hilt....When the wives of soldiers over there do not get enough money to support themselves during the time their husbands are away and have to work two jobs while taking care of the kids, it's a disgrace..... the money being wasted on this war certainly could be put to better use here in our own country and for it's citizens...

I pray for a change come this tuesday in the congress...and in the governers races...I know here in Florida we need a change drastically, but I fear it won't happen...

What will happen with my friend and I...I don't think this relationship can be saved, a person needs to be flexible and I think the two of us just aren't willing to bend. But you never really know do you.

Thanks to all for leaving your thoughts and comments...even those that are negative and nasty...you will one day see life isn't as black and white as your thoughts are

Jackie: The choices we're talking about re Barbs friend are not about politics. This person is my sister and Carolyn's aunt. We know exactly what the issues are re:her choices. She's a very sick gal and has made horrible health choices. She is brilliant not ignorant as you inferred. You went off on a political rant, based on assumptions. Just the sort of thing I rabidly avoid but this is my family.

Joe: This isn't made up, believe me

PS Name calling is not necessary in any conversation.
PSS She had these problems way before Bush was in office

Barbara,
Your friend sounds like an emotional conservative. This was a new phenomenon for me too. This is someone who emotionally needs to believe what they believe and they do not want your facts to rock their foundation. I know the type. I lived with one for years but didnt understand it. I had a wonderful friend who happened to be a fierce republican.
He would call me a "knee jerk liberal" and I would call him a "facist pig". :-) We loved to talk to eachother, especially about politics. We could test out our ideas and expand our understanding of what was going on in our world.
I found it very frustrating and confusing then to deal with other people who would try to shout me down, could not be rational on the subject, and worst of all, would put their fingers in their ears. (nice adult behavior)
Now, I am with Alex and Jackie, and it sounds like you. The reason that you just dont drop it is that it is extrmely important. This is not just a matter of a difference of opinion.
Our democracy being dismantled, a 9 trillion dollar deficit and hundreds of thousands of innocent people dead, dumping 2000 tons on Iraq and exposing our troops to it, dragging us into an illegal war on what they knew to be shoddy intelligence and suspending habeas corpus, for foreigners AND Americans are not differences of opinion. In 1984 the media was owned by 170 companies. Now, 90% of the media is owned by 5 conservative corporations who have no desire for you to know what is really going on.
We have to keep talking! It doesnt mean you have to shove it down anybodies throats but keep the dialog going. There are innocent people being picked up off the streets, jailed, not charged, tortured, their familes do not know where they are wehn and if they are released they are naver given an explanation. That is who this country has become and it is what people are supporting if they vote for the GOP. If it was me or someone I loved in there, (and now that the interrogation bill has passed it could ba any of us with the guts to speak out) I would want people to know, to react , to stop this from happening.
So for every mother or father that wails as they hold their dead child in their arms, for every soldier that comes home and dies of cancer because of their exposiure to deplete uranium, for every innocent person being held without charges or proof will not be silent!
I was dating a man last year who would not let me talk (so not many dates). He would bring something up (related to politics) and then would not let me get my point in, obviously a Republican. Finally, we got into it and he said "People are more important than politics. But I think you could change." (If you knew me you would be rolling on the floor) Turns out we never had another date.
Ignorance is no excuse and I do not date those that condone torture and murder.

I didnt even have to hit on the economy, environment, war profiteering, closed bid contracts, ............

Good luck. Personally I will not facilitate anybody's ostrich impression. Not to say that I have to talk about it constantly with everyone. I know when to be tactful and diplomatic too. Apparently not here though :-)

Barbara, You value your right to express your opinion. You value your right to support what you believe in. Why can't you afford your ex-friend the same courtesy. Maybe she didn't want to answer your questions because she didn't feel the need to defend the things she believes in, maybe she didn't want to make you angry about a topic you are obviously so passionate about. When you became friends with this person did you make it clear that your friendship was contingent on discussing politics and/ or holding the same political views? I am not judging you just trying to point out a different perspective. I think this friendship can be saved if you and her have a honest discussion and agree to disagree on this topic and make a pact never to discuss politics. Obviously your friendship was not based on politics. When I live my last day on this planet and meet my maker. I know I will not be judged on my political affiliation.

Christine you made some powerful points that I didn't even mention, that bother me to the utmost extreme, and what about the patriot act, we any of us can be spied upon at any time and for any reason...It's all impossible to comprehend actually, like those movies made years ago showing the future, 1984, Animal farm, Fahrienheit, oh I forget the number...It seems the future is now and it's not pretty, For now though I guess all we can do is hope there is a change on TYesday, if not we are all in deep du du....

April, your ideas are valued...when we became friends her life was alot different and she wasn't so bitter then, she also seemed to have more of an open mind..as a matter of fact I believe she was also a registered democrat as was her ex husband...Since they split I've tried to be there for her, but her entire thought process seemed to have changed...Oh, I guess she went through hell during that period but it's over now...I just hope someday she finds some peace in her mind

Thanks for stopping by,

Susie...as I've said many times before she is lucky to have you..... without you there for her I hate to think what would have happened to her many times over.

and, I still don't think she appreciates you the way she should....

Sandy, you've misquoted and mischaracterized what I said. I haven't stated in any way, shape or form what I tolerate and don't tolerate and I certainly never used the words "lying, cheating, killing, double standards".

I observed that those who aligned themselves with the left end of the political spectrum (often described as more tolerant than the right) used more intolerant language and name calling than those who didn't.

That you go on to suggest that I ""tolerate" lying, cheating, killing, double standards, ignorance, and think everyone should tolerate those things" only illustrates my point. On the contrary, by pointing out the double standards and inconsistencies I believe I demonstrate a certain intolerance to those things.

As for the rest of your list: I found it intolerable that Bill Clinton lied under oath; that James McGreevey cheated on his wife; that 854,000 unborn children were killed in 2002 in the U.S. (according to the CDC http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0764203.html); and that the vast majority of Americans are ignorant of the stellar economy that country has enjoyed in the last several years with the stock market up to record levels, growth around 3% or more, and unemployment down.

But, please note, I will not slander you with disparaging names and characterizations just because you are tolerant of those things I find intolerable.

Jackie - until you have a CLUE about the subject to which you are referring, you best keep your mouth shut. What Barbara neglects to mention in this twisted political rant is BACKGROUND HISTORY on her friend. Her friend, my aunt, is mentally ill. She has struggled unsuccessfully with anorexia, exercise bulemia, OCD, major depression, BDD, anxiety disorder, panic disorder...the list goes on...for her 55+ years. She has made poor choices in how she choosese to care for herself and allow others (or not allow others) to help her. That has nothing to do with what you refer to as "bad choices" made by war veterans, and it has NOTHING at all to do with politics!!

Getting up and out of bed (actually off of her futon because she no longer sleeps in a bed) each day is a struggle for her. Looking in the mirror pains her. The phone rings and her heart jumps, her pulse quickens and she breaks into a cold sweat hoping whomever is on the line isn't going to screw with her fragile emotions.

So, no -- this has NOTHING to do with politics. This has to do with (as someone commented above) political bullying.

Barbara, a true friend would RESPECT that someone is not interested in having political conversations, would RESPECT that the friend is emotionally fragile and forcing these conversations with her only serves to make her sicker.

Be a friend and back off and leave her alone.

Evryone is entitled to their own opinion and for the purpose of keeping the relationship, you'll just have to agree to disagree. But no matter what, don't ever discuss these three things...

1) Politics
2) Religion
3) The OJ Verdict

It's not worth sacrificing a friendship over...

Heather...funny thing I thought about that comment of mine and decided to come back and delete it since yes, it was too personal..

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

I think this has been a tough thread for you to maintain today, Barbara. I'm deleting my previous response to respect your privacy issue since I referred to it. I I think you need a nice hot bath and a cup of tea.... let this go and take some breathing space.

And.... a virtual hug. I think things have been learned here today.

I'm only commenting to let you know that I stopped by. I dont discuss politics with anyone. My opinion is of my own and I want it to be my choice only with no influence when I go to the poll.

wow, now this is a heavy thread.
I understand the despair one goes through when somebody is upset about their station in life and you know the poliical climate which keeps them downtrodden. Sorry you had to lose a friend over it.
I don't discuss politics with my father, for example, as he is a man who believes the right wing talk show bullies and if I make an informed statement, however kindly, he rails and rants and it's a big mess.
So we do NOT discuss it.
I wonder at James Carville and Mary Madellin, who are on extreme opposites of the political spectrum (she worked on the bush campaign while he on the clinton campaign and now they are married).
They are folks who agree to disagree, yet have a beautiful life together.
IF your friendship is strong, it can survive rants and the like. But if it is not strong in the first place, then you both are better off.
Bless you.

eventually your friend will see the light and come around, if by chance she doesn't, then she wasn't a friend at all. I hope everything works out for you in a positive way/

The friend was always a friend and friendship should not be based on or destroyed by poliltics (By the way the friend is a registered Democrat!) She, Barbs friend was like this in the Clinton administraion, the previous Bush and in the Ford administration, so what does that mean? It means it has nothing to do with politics or Bush. She's not a well person and can't deal with being attacked . She's my sister, I speak with her, it hurts her that she's being verbally abused over politics and she's asked that politics be put aside out of respect for the friendship that she values with Barbara. Thats all.

She's not a well person and can't deal with being attacked . She's my sister, I speak with her, it hurts her that she's being verbally abused over politics and she's asked that politics be put aside out of respect for the friendship that she values with Barbara. Thats all.

Susie, I never wanted to hurt her, and I NEVER attacked her verbally, I just made a statement, something about the lack of help the government gives to people like her who can't get the medical care she needs due to finances, blaming the current the admininstration.... and she got upset then hung up on me...I called her back to try to make amends but she didn't pick up the phone... I wrote this as a way to vent myself, I wasn't sure if you or Carolyn would read it though I knew there was a good chance you would but never thought it was get so out of hand.

One of the things I enjoy about Gather is to talk politics since I find what's going on in the country so frustating and do enjoy reading what others have to say. both for and against what I believe in...but I never meant to hurt your sister in any way....since you yourself write such personal, private, heart tugging articles about your lives, I didn't think I would be so critized by you or Carolyn... I never expected your sister to read this since she is so adamently opposed to reading anything on line....you know better than anyone how she feels about the computer..I hope oneday we can get beyond this, but it not, we both will have lost a friend.

I was even thinking of deleting this whole thing but won't since that would be the ultimate capitulation..take care and stay strong, I know how much she depends on you for so much..

Oh for the luva Odin....

Barb. I'm here, man. Don't delete it.

Glad you are back....no, I won't delete.

"Barb but you have to respect a persons request not to get involved in something she knows enflames you" (quoted from my response to you). Carolyn and I both got a bit put off by the girl Jackie who went off on a rant knowing nothing about the other side of the story. We never criticized you .

I wasn't criticizing you as far as I can tell when I reread my comments. I've only tried to point out that Bonnie is fragile, she doe not want to be lectured about her politics and that you need to put your friendship with her above the political issues.

I echo what Mom said above.

I've only tried to point out that Bonnie is fragile, she doe not want to be lectured about her politics and that you need to put your friendship with her above the political issues.

Susie and Carolyn....I understand she is fragile, everyone is so concerned about her, but is she concerned about herself when she does so much self inflicted harm to her own body...and, as I stated, this government in power now has made life for her even more difficult, especially financially and health wise, not being able to get the health care she needs. Because there isn't government funding for people like us unless we pay huge insurance costs.

It just amazes me that she can defend that way of thinking...I can understand the wealthy or religious right defending Bush the way they do, but why does she????
It just boggles my mind, I guess that's why I bring it up to her, as the title of this piece says. I JUST DON"T UNDERSTAND....I'm sorry if I upset her again with my ideas...

Its hard to walk on eggshells all the time when talking to her...

I don't know if we will get above this, there just may be too much that has been said which can't be taken back..I believe in what I believe in and the political atmosphere right now is so intense and so important in all our lives....I just can't forget about how it's affected me and how it will affect the future of America as well as the whole world. When this election is over maybe we can be civil once again to each other...

I don't believe you meant to hurt me in your comments and I understand you were defending your sister/aunt, families do that and right they are to do so...

Thanks once again for your thoughts. as I said earlier, she is very lucky to have you both

Carolyn wrote:

"Jackie - until you have a CLUE about the subject to which you are referring, you best keep your mouth shut."

And someone named Susan sent me a private email regarding this thread...

EXCUSE me? Is this not gather? You are using threatening language because I COMMENTED to a public post? Get a life.

You are responding to my comment:

"...you can't argue with ignorance. And before the right wingers jump down my throat, I'm not saying her friend is "ignorant" as in retarded...but ignorant as to issues, policy effects, and governance."

I stand by that comment ladies, and you have proved my point.

And allow me to add, if you are truly related to this "unknown" friend that Barbara originally wrote about; why on earth would you share such personal information with a bunch of people you don't know, and especially people she doesn't know??

That is caring for someone? As far as Barb's post went, she was talking about a problem she has with an unknown friend. You personalized it, and gave this poor women's private information out publicly. That is actually illegal.

You should both be ashamed.

And Barb, like I said, politics shouldn't matter to friendship. It's only politics. If she is your friend, and you love and care for her, who cares what she thinks politically? Unless it affects your health, home or family.....forget about it! You can vote your conscience, and that's all that matters!

Barb: You know we adore you. We admire your ability to have maintained such a long friendship with my sister. She does read these things. She needed and wanted her side heard. I hope airing your thoughts it all will allow you two to pick up where you left off. It's a friendship that I'm sure will rise above politics.It's wonderful that Gather is a place where you can do this in a healthy manner.

JACKIE---

RE:"Jackie - until you have a CLUE about the subject to which you are referring, you best keep your mouth shut."

That wasn't from me. I would never threaten anyone.


RE:And allow me to add, if you are truly related to this "unknown" friend that Barbara originally wrote about; why on earth would you share such personal information with a bunch of people you don't know, and especially people she doesn't know??

She reads these articles and needed /wanted her side told

RE:You personalized it, and gave this poor women's private information out publicly. That is actually illegal. Cancel your lawyer, its not illegal. She, my sister , needed, wanted to be defended, she wanted readers to know there was more to this story.

RE:You should both be ashamed. Sorry, we're not. We stand up for each other.

RE: And Barb, like I said, politics shouldn't matter to friendship. Your last comment was greatly appreciated. Thats the bottom line. Thats what we were trying to impress on Barb

You get a lovely Ten... Yea For you!!!! :)