Are we being conditioned to accept higher casualty figures in the same way that we've convinced ourselves that $60.75 is a good price for a barrel of crude?
Last week, the Department of Defense released obituaries for 27 military personnel killed in Iraq, bringing the total of such obituaries over the past 28 days to 106.
Despite the recent news article reporting that the insurgents are shifting their emphasis to Afghanistan - a story that was evidently planted to make us feel more comfortable about the folly in Iraq - there were no deaths reported, once again, in that country.
As of Friday, October 27th, total U.S. deaths, in and around Iraq, amounted to 2,808, according to the Pentagon.
Also, according to the Pentagon, total U.S. deaths in and around Afghanistan, as of Wednesday, October 25th, amounted to 283.
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Comments: 18
David- -"Despite the recent news article reporting that the insurgents are shifting their emphasis to Afghanistan - a story that was evidently planted to make us feel more comfortable about the folly in Iraq"- -prove that.
> > Okay, you 3- -Bob, Donna, Tony- -What would you have done after Pearl Harbor? Surrendered to the Japanese?
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> Well, this is nothing like WWII, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even having a notion to compare it to such a thing.
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> WWII was NECCESSARY. Not to mention we went after and defeated the ppl that attacked us. Not South Africa. lol
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> Lets face it, attacking Iraq as a respons to 9/11 is the same thing as us attacking South Africa in response to Pearl Harbor. Its a stupid and BAD thing. And everything the right wing has said about it leading up to it, after the failure to find WMD's (that most of the world knew he didnt have and TOLD us that he didnt), any links to terrorism or ANYTHING they suggested, has been out to be the lies they always were.
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> Thats all you get. You should be ashamed for suggesting this war is anything like WWII. It is NOT. And it only goes to show the desperation of your kind when you try to use it to further the BAD you've already caused in a place you do not belong.
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> Iraq did nothing to us. Japan attacked us. Stupid fucking question dood.
Stupid answer, mongoloid. Look at the header. It talks about AFGHANISTAN- -where the Taliban allowed OBL to train his nutcases and send them against us, then refused to hand him over to us when we demanded his extradition. Are you going to deny they were responsible for the deaths of those 3,000 NYers- -more than died in the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor? Or have you not completed 3rd grade yet?
As a a matter of fact, I directed a question at David challenging him to substantiate his claim about Afghanistan.
I said NOTHING about Iraq. That was George's folly. Or the folly of the people he chose to listen to instead of calling his old man, who chose to avoid exactly the course he took, then took much heat for doing so.
But maybe if you want to fire at George about Iraq, you had better fire at his predecessor too.
Or is objectivity asking too much of this thread?
This is not ww2, thank god, but during that war, it was not just one country, it was 3, and if you lived during that time, or if you even went in depth to find out what happened during ww2, yu would understand that it is so close to the failures during ww2, it is not funny. For example, France, and Great Britain both were attacked time and again until France, being like so many of you who wish we would just not do anything, were overtaken by the germans. The nazis wanted a world of one kind of people, white anglo blue eyed, blonde haired people. Let me see, the extremist of the islamic faith that believe all jews should be killed and destroyed, that americans should all die, and anyone who believes in freedom should die sounds very familiar. During WWII we waited until it was almost to late, would you suggest that we should of done the same again? Would you suggest that after the towers were destroyed that we should of waited for deadly gas to be exploded in a subway tunnel like in japan, or a train blown up like in france, or people who wrote words that was againt the extremist was killed outside their home like in the netherlands? Should we of waited until a few more sailors were killed with the death wish extremist ramming their boats into our navy ships? Should we wait until they would control us because we waited and they now control all of the oil, so we have to pay ransoms to get enough to keep our country going? What part do you say you are willing to accept? Your condescending attitude towards the president, etc. shows you have no ability to disect the situation, follow the trails, look at the past, and see what really needs to be done. Talking does not work, agreements, with liars, does ot work. What do you propose to keep us safe? what is your answer, since you feel it necessary to insult our leaders, where is your game plan? I find the indifference to history, and te signs of repeating shows a genuine lack of caring or understanding. It shows me people really are not concerned about their fellow man, let alne their neighbors, or country men. As far as korea and iran, should we just shut up and let them build atomic weapons, then when they drop them some where and we get the fall out and thousands in this country die, what would you say to your loved ones? oh it is ok, because George bush was an idiot, so we decided to make sure he did nothing? To you who thinks all that has been done to others throughout the world by these extremist, do you want to live where you fear for your lfe 4 hours a day 365 days a year? no you have your freedom to be rude, unknowledgeable, and hostile, because of the idiots who have ran this country in the political positions that the majority has put in power. Buck up, and see the whole picture, not just you 1/4 acre lot. thanks.
Can you, from your data base, tell us if in the 'last three months' (August, September, and October 2006) there were more or fewer deaths than from the 'WAR' that was fought (and presumed ended) at the start for a couple of weeks which ended as I remember in the Spring of 2003 when the 'looting' and unexpected 'insurgency' actions started? (after the 'WAR' was ended?)
I think the more telling figures would be to compare the losses DURING the (initial period) WAR with the 'post-WAR' figures of deaths and wounded of our troops (and perhaps even the Iraqi children, adults and troops, if such info is available--even estimates).
The major Public Relations information that we in the USA receive should always suggest that the 'WAR' was over when the President appeared on the aircraft carrier and said what he said. I think a separation into before and after would make us more aware of the TRUE issue of what is happening in Iraq. These killings and maimings now are all--according to the logic of (1) WAR and (2) POST-WAR -- part of the the post WAR period problem, which seems to be becoming endless now. 'Stay the Course' seems to have lost sight of the fact that present deaths and casualties are NOT part of the (1) WAR at all. These losses are more like casualties in the (2) POST-WAR period and are due to our OCCUPATION and the needed POLICE ACTION to attempt to establish order in Iraq.
I hope you can help to clean out the misunderstandings -- that at least are in my mind.
Thanks always for your continuing efforts, dear friend.
Dick
Military deaths during this first phase (prior to May 1, 2003) were 140 and averaged a little over 4 per day.
It was approximately 14 months later that we turned over sovereignty to Iraq, on June 28, 2004.
During this period there were 718 deaths averaging 1.89 per day.
It was then seven months to the Iraq elections on Jan 30, 2005.
There were 579 deaths during this period, averaging 2.92 per day.
It was then 10 1/2 months to the Iraq general election on Dec 14, 2005.
There were 715 deaths during this period, averaging 2.35 per day.
It was then 10 1/2 months until yesterday, Oct 30, 2006.
There were 662 deaths during this period, averaging 2.19 per day.
October, 2006, with 102 deaths so far, has been the fourth highest month since May, 2003.
As far as before and after "victory" goes, there were 140 deaths before and - so far - 2,674 deaths after Bush declared "mission accomplished."
FIRST: THANK YOU FOR YOUR CLEAR PRESENTATION OF THE RELEVANT FACTS.
If I read your exxellent data correctly, the FACTS say, thus far that:
(1) There were 140 deaths during the WAR that our Houses of Congress supported, and
(2) Almost 2800 deaths AFTER the War was declared 'accomplished', which is a ratio of
(3) About 40 to 1,
and that might mean that the ratio of maimed and wounded troops was probably about the same.40:1 thus far. Right?
So what do we gather then about what VICTORY and WINNING are all about? Past and present FACTS suggest that we have already significantly LOST the WAR (March 1 to May 1, 2003) and we have since been losing the AFTER-WAR too. And that doesn't count in the great losses in the Iraqi population and military at all.
I hope our WORLD and USA PRESS can learn from your efforts to address the FACTS -- empirically. The story becomes far more vivid with your carefully developed and prepared data. Our government should take the 'wonded and maimed' data and tell us, WE THE PEOPLE, what THOSE data imply for the families and individuals who have given their best to serve the decison of our government to wage a pre-emptive war against an enemy that seems not to have had any link to the real enemy, TERRORISTS.
Actions against TERRORISTS must become a meaningful POLICE action worldwide, not a MILITARY one that is not designed to wage such a corrective effort.
Dick
Internet Aljazeera.net site poll regarding US forces results:
Is Iraq right to extend the presence of US forces for another year?
Yes :
32%
No :
59%
Don't know :
9%
Number of pollers : 15046
Now, if I am not mistaken, this poll was not taken in the Midwest, South North or East...its over where the action is....so to speak…interesting that the No's outweigh the Yes…..
Additional information can be found: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E4D19123-9DD3-11D1-B44E-006097071264.htm