Wednesday, October 18th, a day that will live in infamy, the day that Governor (the last office he was actually elected to) G. W. Bush signed legislation which repeals Habeas Corpus.
A dark day, indeed, for any citizen who values the Bill of Rights and freedom of expression.
The parallels to Hitler's rise to power are chilling.
Are we doomed to watch history repeat itself?
|
|
|
More by Mugg Muggles, "The Man With the Jive" |
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 72
I am seriously contemplating canceling our planned trip to the US in February.
Probably not a bad idea, as, if "Carnivore" has been monitoring Gather, you are definitely on the "List" of possible detainees.
They have been tracking me and harrassing me ever since. A friend of mine got picked up just around a week ago and -ahem- detained for questioning, for over the legal 72 hours with no phone call or offer of representation... over telling the joke I then posted right here on gather about 'tragedy'
THESE ARE THE TIMES THAT TRY MEN'S SOULS !
i don't think i make treasonous statements. i haven't ever advocated overthrowing the government.
but the republicans are getting mighty close to advocating overthrowing the government and replacing it with their idea of government. like a bloodless coup stealing into the night.
Unfortunately TM, it apparently no longer matters what WE think.
"Who are the Brain Police?"
"No way to delay that trouble comin' every day!"
-- Frank Zappa
If you write a letter to the editor attacking Bush, you could be deemed as purposefully and materially supporting hostilities against the United States. If you organize or join a public demonstration against Iraq, or against the administration, the same designation could befall you. One dark-comedy aspect of the legislation is that senators or House members who publicly disagree with Bush, criticize him, or organize investigations into his dealings could be placed under the same designation. In effect, Congress just gave Bush the power to lock them up
Scary times are here.
Read the rest of his column:
WPR's, In Case I Disappear"
Lots of things out there nibbling at the Bill of Rights, most right under your holier than thou nose and you picked this? Good God, wake up. First, Second, Forth, Fifth Amendment, Nineth, Tenth, Forteenth, Fifteenth etc all are being violated everyday. Most of the time with such "aware" people as you cheering them on!
So true.
I don't see this as big a problem as you seem to indicate, but of course I note you don't like how the Electoral Collage works either. Bush was elected using the same system we have had in place for the 222+ years our constitution has been in force.
I am not sure how President Bush could have done differently, first he ran the war and the detention of Terrorists the same way all other Presidents in War Time did, and the left said "how dare he... blah blah blah..." so they went to court and the court said, "NO Mr. President you need get congress to be involved in this decision...", so then President George W. Bush goes to Congress and members of Both Parties support the bill that eventually made it to his desk... and so now your saying again, "How dare he... Blah blah blah..." he did what was demanded of him by the courts and asked the congress to support a logical and useful ways to detain, interrogate and try terrorists for their crimes. Yes, I said they are crimes, not Military actions, for they are not part of some National Military, they are thugs that decided to take on our country and thwart our system and destroy our society.
I personally have a problem with thugs trying to do that to my family or even yours, don't you?
Or, seriously, will you stop yourself from protecting your family if they were attacked? Would you just say to your wife hey, they disserve fair treatment lets not get to angry honey, yes they killed our kids but lets make sure they are not treated too badly by our Evil Government that wants to see that this doesn't happen to us again."
"same way all other Presidents in War Time did". Well, according to the Constitution that I read, we ARE NOT at war. Congress, and Congress ALONE has the power to declare war. There has been NO Declaration of War. Governor Bush thinks he can do any goddam thing he wants, and it is high time that our elected representatives put a fucking leash on this mad dog.
The bootm line is you cannot say anything anti-Bush without fear of harassment, and now that this shit has gone into law, the stakes have quadrupled.
I stay very high-profile to lesson the odds of being 'disapeared' while I'm in the States on business... but they do take me aside every time I enter the country and put me in a room for awhile to sweat it out. i wonder what they will do now...
That is a very naive and dangerous stance.
Do some people really believe that Dubya and his Vulcan pals can be trusted to act in a civilized manner? Shit, I guess there are at least two, eh?
What if you happened to find yourself in a situation where it was INTERPRETED that you were affililiated,
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5969429083125319458&q=%22road+to+guantanamo%22
And you ended up being carted off to a detention facility with no rights, not even told why you were there, subjected to torture to get information from you that you didn't even have, and kept indefinitely? This happens to too many innocent people.
Does this mean we don't even dare disagree with the administration? What kind of crap is that?
Convenient? Keep your head buried. If lots of people know what is going on and have already been subjected to it, I would think that would validate it all.
Am I expecting a knock on the door? Not while I'm in Sweden, no. They don'tplay that shit here. Do I anticipate yet more trouble when I come to the states on business next time? Yes. I do.
I guess that you must be unfamiliar with Condi, Rummy, and Wolfie's little organization "The Vulcans" or you would not respond in such a foolish and ignorant manner to my mention of it.
"Live Long and Prosper!" NOT.
I guarandamntee you they won't run out and attack the wrong country...
Try going to Europe and watching a little TV. You will quickly see the difference...
Mike is too busy reading Tolkien.(g) I find it amazing that a person can read with his head so far up his ass. ;-)
Thanks, I'll do my best.
"the muTTed echos" of what? DOGS barking? Spell check is free, use it if you are so dumb.
As far as Cunt Jemima (Condi) is concerned, haven't you noticed those lips? I hear that she can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch. ;-)
Muggs question for you guy... Congress declares war ONLY after the President sends up the request. Neither branch of government, neither party bothered to make that point BUT they still gave him the same open ended support that Truman and Johnson recieved. One Congressman, Ron Paul of TX (R) asked for the request for war, no one on either side of ths House supported him. Why are you demanding NOW they act like adults? They didn't then and now it's not over in a year or so, they have the right/responsibility to do so?
Blame it all on Bush if you want, it might soothe your feelings if you don't like him but it doesn't face the fact that CONGRESS (all of it) failed even more miserably in their job then he did....
I am not defending Congress, they are the ones who didn't have the balls or brains to even look at the Patriot Act before signing it, starting Amerika's downhill slide to a police state.
As for "No American cop can come up and demand your ID/papers w/out legal cause," if you really believe that the police can't roust you for ANY fucking reason they want (especially if you happen to be 'driving while black (or brown') then your eyes must be Brown, if you get my drift.
Oops, another (this time, veiled) insult. Oh well, I think you are a fucking nut case and you think the same of me. I guess that makes us even, except in terms of ability to articulate or spell, two attributes that seem very important to most of the rest of us on Gather. How's the water at the shallow, muddy end of the Gene Pool, Sarge?
And for the record Charles? The cops can demand your ID anytime they wish. Hell they've been doing that for as long as I can remember and I'm 49. Try to say no and see what happens... it won't be pretty. I worked in the Criminal 'Justice' field.
And that was before Habeus Corpusgot blown to bits. Now they can toss you away without a phone call, legal representation, none of that.
No country is perfect. However, the US has NO right to try to slam any other country for any damn thing. they have more blood on their hands than the majority... and not so-called 'righteous' blood either. Hell, the US is knee-deep in murder and illegal war right now!
War on terror? Bullshit. Bush went in and attacked the enemy of the fucking terrorists! How stupid are you?
To quote Clark Kent, because he put it so eloquently:
They wanted us out of Saudi Arabia, so he quickly did so. They wanted Bin Laden to go free, so he let him. They wanted American freedoms to be broken apart, so Bush broke them. They wanted their funding sources to remain secret, so Bush hid them. They wanted Saddam gone, so Bush took him out. They wanted Iraq to be a breeding ground for terrorists to train on, so Bush left hundreds of tons of high explosives littering the landscape for them to loot and use at will. They wanted to use opium production in Afghanistan to fatten their wallets, so Bush gave them record production years. They wanted American borders and ports to be left wide open, so Bush left them open. Shall I go on?
Please do open your eyes and start paying attention to what the hell is going on over there today.
As far as the Hitler financing is concerned, I suggest you Google the name of Dubya's war criminal granddaddy, Prescott Bush. You will discover that he was a banker for Adolph Hitler and helped supply loans to I.G. Farben (later to morph into Bayer, as in aspirin) the jolly little chemical company that gave us Zyklon-D which was used by the Nazi's to ice millions of "non-aryan" human beings. (BTW- the former Pope, John-Paul the ?? was a salesman for I.G. Farben during WW2.)
These are facts, Sarge.
And don't that fella from Krypton have a way with words, Hoo-Wee! Thanks Lori.
Just for comments sake, the Swedes have the longest tradition of representative government in the world. They had tribal council meetings before anyone else thought of it. Mike, read a book. Lori, blessings on any path you choose.
Welcome to the fray. heh.
Well put, Terry.
Terrorist attacks on SWEDEN??? There's a good one. 'Cause we all know what an international meddler, imperialistic, energy hogging, world policy dictating, military, socioeconomic, threat THAT country is!
I never thought I would see this day. Truly. I wrote my first essay in life (3rd grade) on why I was proud to be American. The basis of that was our utter freedom. How young I was then. How old I am now.
Sweden, Australia, or New Zealand is the heated disscussion at our house these days. (And if we don't make it out in time, how to ensure that our daughter can.)
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death. Those were meaningful words once.
No, Terry. It is not.
Firdst of all, the government isn't doing anything to protect you. They are tossing up smoke screens to get more control over your life by taking away all of your rights. Please wake up.
Sweden, Australia, or New Zealand is the heated disscussion at our house these days. (And if we don't make it out in time, how to ensure that our daughter can.)
Good choices. You might look into Denmark also. Beautiful country.
Kunt Jimymuh sens hur luv. LMFAO ;-)
BTW- pleez herreeyup and dye.
"- Authorizes the President to establish military commissions to try detained enemy combatants (Sec. 948b (b))
- Specifies that enemy combatants are not able to invoke rights under the Geneva Convention (Sec. 948b (g))
- Stipulates that no one may be forced to testify against themselves, statements obtained through torture are inadmissible, and allows "statements obtained before enactment of Detainee Treatment Act of 2005" to be used in certain circumstances (Sec. 948r)
- Creates rules, guidelines and procedures for the trial and sentencing phases of military commissions (Sec. 949a-o & Sec. 949s-u)
- Prohibits courts, justices, or judges from hearing or considering writs of habeas corpus or any other action filed by or on the behalf of detained enemy combatants (Sec. 7(e(1)(2)))"
We used to have POW's, but since they are covered by International Law, we had to come up with something new. How are we to define an "enemy combatant" then? Could I be one? Could you?
Under the provisions of the Secretary of the Navy Memorandum Implementation of Combatant Status Review Tribunal Procedures for Enemy Combatant Detained at Guantanamo Bay Naval Base Cuba ... An enemy combatant has been defined as "an individual who was part of or supporting the Taliban or al Qaida forces, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners. This includes any person who committed a belligerent act or has directly supported hostilities in aid of enemy armed forces."
(emphasis mine)
I guess that depends on how "belligerent" you are, and how our government defines it these days, doesn't it.?
Yes Charles if the police ask you for your papers you MUST provide them now, the supreme court ruled against a man in California, who was arrested for not having his ID on him.
Personally I want to fight against having a government that can arrest me without cause, throw me on a plane to a foreign country to be tortured into making statements against myself, then locked into a "black prison" to rot until I am dead .
Didn't we fight a revolution to keep this from happening to us?
William J. Haynes II, General Counsel of the Department of Defense:
U.S. citizen enemy combatants who are detained in the United States may challenge their detention by a petition for habeas corpus. In the view of the U.S. government, enemy combatants have no right to counsel to challenge their detention. Providing enemy combatants a right of access to counsel could thwart our ability to collect critical information and could imperil efforts to prevent further terrorist attacks. It might also enable detained enemy combatants to pass concealed messages to the enemy.
Heaven forbid we should have the right to challenge our detention, to substantiate our claims of innocence. Heaven forbid we should have counsel to represent us in such efforts. Heaven forbid we should get a message out to our families regarding our saftey. Heaven forbid we should have constitutional rights under the law in an "undeclared war." Heaven forbid we should disappear "for the duration of hostilities" with no recourse whatsoever.
William J. Haynes II, General Counsel of the Department of Defense: (Same reference as above)
In the current conflict, military personnel ordinarily make enemy combatant determinations during combat operations, under the combatant commander's direction. With respect to individuals captured in the United States, to date DoD has detained only Abdullah al Muhajir, also known as Jose Padilla. The President, as Commander in Chief, determined that Mr. Padilla is an enemy combatant.
How does he decide? Well, he puts you, or a group you are affiliated with on a list.
It's called Executive Order 13224. That's right. It's the same one we all cheered because it would cut off funding for terrorism. But guess what? Your financial assets can be blocked that way too, along with anyone who could be supporting you. Your employer. Your mother. Your bank.
But, since the actual list part needs to be constantly updated and maintained each time someone new is deemed "dangerous" there's a separate list to specify exactly who among us is an "enemy combatant" for which these new rules apply. It's included in 13224 by reference. For it, you'll have to wade through an extensive pdf, entitled E.O. 13224 from The U.S. Department of Treasury, Office of Foreign Assets Control.
Ya know, even Lincoln's suspension was overturned.
The Supreme Court struck down that claim in the 1866 case Ex Parte Milligan, ruling that "martial rule can never exist where the Courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction."
The 1943 case Ex Parte Quirin, which dealt with a military tribunal for eight accused Nazi saboteurs (including an American citizen), upheld using such courts � in the context of a declared war. There is simply no justification in the Constitution, law, or precedent for the Bush administration�s claim that a president, exercising "plenary authority," can authorize military commanders to designate individuals as "enemy combatants" and hold them indefinitely without trial.
I pretty much agree with The New American on that one.
Just what would an attempt to take away our republic look like?
Figure some weird looking dude with a Charlie Chaplin mustache would just start ordering people to obey him? Maybe the Prez would just tell the military to flood the streets and shoot anybody that spoke up? Or do ya figure they'd kinda do it slow and gradual like...maybe start with some sorta state of emergency sorta thing...then perhaps some emergency surveillance systems...then maybe some goofy emergency laws that made it easy to intimidate people that resisted...
Hard to say isn't it?
Terrorists. Terrorism.
As defined by our illustrious President.
The Courts do not, indeed, have the authority to amend the Constitution. Nor, IMNHO, should they. They are, however, charged with the interpretation of its contents. It is relatively common knowledge that the Court uses precedent in order to derive grounds for its rulings. The precedents for this one are not in favor of the recent "suspension of Habeas Corpus. (Tho, nowhere in this bill is it even suggested that this is a "temporary" measure as would be implied by "suspension" as opposed to "expulsion."
I believe the legal term is 'extinction'.
OOOOOHh...Gee, and here I thought there might be more ways.
You're a Neosheep
Sharks are kinda nasty...how bout you?
You got some weird sorta short term memory loss thing...?
Yes, I do think that Joe Kennedy was a fascist P.O.S., but his sons are a different matter. They have redeemed themselves by service to humanity.
Dubya has served no one but his greedy self and his war profiteering cronies.
As far Ronnie Ray-Gun is concerned, exactly what is it that you are referring to when you claim that he was proven right?
I have to ask because your inarticulate way of expression leaves much of what you attempt to say a total mystery.
But, as you say, regarding your disinclination to use spell check, I guess you would prefer for all the world to view you just as you are, a hopeless, gibbering imbecile.
For once you got something right! No, sorry, not that I like you. LOL But it was Mr. Stars and Stripes (Charles Temm JUNIOR) who referenced Mr. Schikelgruber.
But you must forgive Lori, as it's so easy to mistake one clueless wingnut for another, n'est-ce pas? LOL
I have honed my verbal abuse skills for 45÷ years and am damn proud of my abilities, although it doesn't take much skill at all to verbally spar with a person so totally bereft of communication skills and who seems to be overwhelmingly proud of his inability to write a complete sentence or use proper punctuation. I'm jumping to conclusions here, but I'd bet that your TV tuner is perpetually set on Fox News, and that you adore Bill O'Really and his Neo-Concubine Ann Cold-Turd.
LOL --- your pal, Smugg Smuggles
Damn you caught me, I have problems spelling. That condemns me in your book right off the bat I guess. As for driving while brown/black, you got me again...damn it. Being white just keeps me from knowing the real America. But we have you to inform us ignorant white folks. Anyway, I'll try again to make a point for you if you'd read it. Go to Europe or South America and see the powers a cop has, than look here, you might notice a difference.
Anyway I concede defeat, your razor sharp wit and stunningly good looks have me too confused to stand up to you. Go forth and illuminate the truth for those of us not so lucky to have good genes and had the time to sharpen our wits to your level
Muggs I have heard that before about Bush 1's dad but what I've seen wasn't authoritive, do you recommend any sources? By the way my mother is dead, cancer so I guess you can crow about that too.....