CRAWL BACK INTO YOUR SEWER

we all need to respect each other, and unfortunally there will always be small minded people.

LOL I am flattered to have an article posted just for me. As I posted in your other article I mentioned the fact that intermarriage only leads to stupid humans. It is a genetic black hole, just like for the Amish and many other religious groups who are not mainstream. Simple concept. And for your information I don't believe in any religion. I think they all are flawed and impose rediculous constructs on all human beings. Even those who don't believe in their particular flavor often become objects of riducule just to prove a point of 'faith". My comment was half joke and half scorn for yet another religious post here on Gather, which inevitably become jumping off points for the preaching to start in. Is your faith so fragile you can't deal with an anonymous post from the Internet? You bring up points that open up all kinds of strange conversations, including some particular scrutiny about the group as a whole. Does it all have to be bowing down and kissing the feet of your prophet or is there room for levity? Consider me bad if you want, but also consider that when you write and post on an open forum you will get all kinds of responses. I would imagine you won't start a post about other replies to your initial message, because it either suits your purpose or flatters your eog, which is fine. Some of us took off the "God Goggles' a long time ago.

Ah, Firoze, Travis is known for his dry wit. It can be difficult to detect if you're not familiar with him.

I never got any "God Goggles'

Where do you get them? Were they free? did you get them with S&H greenstamps? Man, I always miss out on the freebies....

Firoze,

When I am attacked I just figure that it is my fair share of the bad. I am happy for the bad since it gives me a chance to demonstrate what a good guy I am.

The Russians hated me back in the cold war and tried to give me a lot of grief. A CEO of a very large conglomerate testified before a Congressional Committee that I should be fired. So what? Just my share. After all, I was alive wasn't I?

When you object to what others do to you, most likely you are wasting your time. Be bigger than they. Jesus told me I should love my enemies and that is the best advice I have ever been given.

Best regards, Ben
Author "Leading People to be Highly Motivated and Committed"

What part of "I mentioned the fact that intermarriage only leads to stupid humans. It is a genetic black hole, just like for the Amish and many other religious groups who are not mainstream." is considered to be dry wit I wonder? Familiar or not, grain of salt or not, I can recognise racist bs when I see it.

He was refering to inbreeding, not racial anything...

Travis, this is so unlike you to be cruel. You are a brilliant writer yourself, and I find Firoze to be the same in his fields of writing. Two great artists should appreciate each other and try to offer constructive advice.

Lori, I know you are trying to lighten the atmosphere, but an unwise decision to belittle another's religion is just not right. That is as bad as the rape of one's beloved mother would be, or one's beloved daughter.

Travis, I do hope you will apologize for your jesting. I am sure you did not mean to insult Firoze, but anyone reading your comment to him can feel the insult he feels.

Firoze, you must forgive also. The tenants of your religion tells you that. You can not be happy when you feel insulted and humiliated and that is wrong according to your religion.

Carolyn, please tell me how that is racist. Explain in detail how intermarriage is good for a gene pool, or how it might contribute to a continuation of a group of people. Even the author laments the fact that inspires hope. Hope the terminus of the religion doesn't happen, because of said things. Come on...get on with it. Don't call me a racist unless you have proof. Being a Zoroastrian has nothing to do with race at all, which should add some impetus to you considering the term STFU.

Look June... if ya put something out there on the Internet, it is open for anyone and everyone to comment on. If someone is too thin-skinned to take any joking then they shouldn't post in the first place.

I do not respect any religion. I am an equal-opportunity religion basher. I suspect the same of Travis. I am also not the type to just skip it and move on.. if something strikes me as humurous, I'ma comment. Sorry ya don't like that...

lori, June took the high road and that's OK. I'm probably the one who needs the religion filter on ANY discussion board. It upsets me and does not sit well with my experience or what I know now. In fact, she may have been right about me being cruel. It was not my intent initially, but in this thread I may have decided to kick around the believer a bit too much, which isn't called for. My apologies again to Firoze.

Firoze,

I have not yet read your article, however it is my intention to do so, since religions are of great interest to me.

You may have not, by this post, served to empower a thoughtless, direspectful person by reacting to a display of ignorance. Many outlaws are drawn to repeat their crimes for the publicity or attention they receive.

On the other hand, he may only have been inconsiderate of the strength of your convictions regarding your beliefs. I think that I recognize his name from many posts of humor. His comment was likely only a trite remark toward any religion not to be taken seriously. A serious adversary of any religion would likely post arguments to specific points of differing opinion. I could hope he might appologize for offending you. Religion is far too powerful a force of faith to be offended by any words spoken by any man or men. And when it is offered, it is offered as a gift to be accepted or refused. And refusal may well be to the loss of intended recipient but never to the loss of the giver. What more appropiate use of the old adage, "Never bite the hand that feeds you."

If I recall correctly, your religion predates and serves as the basis for many of the latter day religious movements. I hope to gain more knowledge from your article. Most fundamentalists would not read seriously any article concerning another religion fearing, I suppose, the temptation of conversion through reason.

Restrain your outrage and retain your faith.....your faith in humanity.

Lori, whether you are an atheist, agnostic or christian, I respect your right to believe. I thought this article well written by a highly intelligent man. He was simply informing us of his religion, its history and its future. He talks of the intermingling of his own people with those of other faiths, thereby washing it down and weakening it. I did not see any thing about incest. Incest and intermarriage are two separate things. Intermarriage in religion is referring to one faith marrying a different faith. The Jewish people were warned against that very thing, mingling of religion, by God The Overseer Of All. He told them when they entered a strange land not to inquire after that land's customs or worship, but to stay a pure people grounded in their own God. I am not going to touch the Amish. *lol*

Thank you Travis. And thank you Daniel. I knew that neither of you were trying to be cruel. You have asked for forgiveness, the ball is in the other court.

As you will no doubt notice, I did not, in fact, comment at all on his thoughtful article... only on this one which is a slam of another member (Travis)

Travis doesn't usually ever slam anyone, therefore, I'd take this with a grain of salt and move on, you're both fantastic writers and don't have to agree on everything. Hang in there, and keep writing!

Wow what an intense conversation here! I believe that we all have a right to believe what we want....and each and every one of us should respect that.
Travis....you're entitled to your opinions....it's how you chose to voice them that I may have a problem with. Also, if anyone truly believes in the Bible then they believe all mankind came from two human beings.....how could there not have been inbreeding if that is truly the case? Just a thought......

OK...i think some clearing the air is in order.

1. I am definitely no Avesta-thumping fundamental kook who believes his faith is "the only true path." I believe I have an intensely personal relationship with God; and it has very little to do with religous dogma, or "fire-and-brimstone" preachers.

2. Zoroastrianism is probably the most tolerant of religions. There is no word like "infidel" in our scriptures. No human being is considered "unclean" or unworthy of God's grace. Even the worst among us is given an opportunity to repent for his misdeeds. If I belonged to a more militant faith, I would probably be getting ready to send Travis a letter bomb.

3. I have been advised to stay out of the kitchen if I can't stand the heat. My regular readers will know that I am more than a match for Travis when it comes to wit and sarcasm (thank you, jackie). I relish a worthy riposte from someone who thinks i'm talking BS (as Travis so elegantly puts it). However, there is a fine line between sarcasm and insensitivity and - tempting though it is sometimes - a good writer should not cross it.

4. I have no issue with Travis being scornful of intermarriage. That is his opinion and he is entitled to it. I also do not consider him a racist, as someone has suggested. It is when he shows a mocking disrespect for a religion he knows nothing about that I get hot under the collar. Ben asks me to ignore and forgive - and normally I would - but I wonder if he (and many others) would be so forgiving if I made an equally offensive remark about Jesus. This is not in the same league as a congressional committee.

Travis has had the grace and courage to send me an email, apologozing for wounding my feelings. I respect him for that and I accept his apology. I bear you no ill will, Travis. Perhaps, my reaction was too impulsive and impassioned; and i should have wited for cooler counsel to prevail. I guess an apology from my side too would be only fair.

Travis, I absolutely mistook your initial comment referring to inter-marriage to be in the sense of inter-racial marriage. so i withdraw my assessment of racism unconditionally. however, i find religious intolerance to be nearly as indicative of a petrified soul so i'll strutt away feeling incredibly superior anyway ;)

lol ty Firoze for showing us that in the heat of the moment too many things become important when they arent at all. i am very impressed with the standard of debate you two have engaged in considering your polar views and i feel well and truly educated. well done.

I think Firoze has ended the debate most magnanimously. Not many people will call a truce in such a sporting manner. However, I still say that some of the stuff dished out by Mr. TB from his high platform was decidedly objectionable and not in good taste. I congratulate both the gentlemen of letters who make the Gather worth its while.

I believe that we should all be open to hearing about the beliefs of one another and do so in a respectful manner. I also believe there is something to be learned from all of us.

I think that another point can me made about this particular issue- the ability to apologize for misunderstandings, agree to disagree, and MOVE ON.

Much respect to Travis and Firoze.

This was a splendid example of a civil disagreement were both sides apologized. It may have started out hot under the collar from both sides but ended up in an excellent truce. Thank you both for showing such good sportmanship and intelligence.

Wussies!


(runs out the door)

Cheryl...yr on the ball, as always..my admiration just keeps growing

Shannon and Serina...yr making me blush

Lori....sorry to disappoint you...i can understand yr angst...you bought a ringside seat and now the fun is over...tsk, tsk

Sorry to all for having "a moment" last night. I can be very grumpy sometimes and a bit abraisive. This is not my syandard mode of operation, but it comes out, often in the wrong places.

And thanks to Firoze for connecting. Perhaps you will write some more about Zoroaster and give me ideas for writing. The current story I am working on mixes technology and the old Japanese religious beliefs, which are primarily Shinto. It would be cool to have some new ideas from a completely different perspective I haven't explored. I apologize again for anything that I said in haste and that was offensive to you. I would rather makes friends than enemies any day.

A perfect ending! I love to see everyone agreeably disagree. Travis and Firoze, you have both shown everyone what fine men you both are.

June...thank you for the complement...talk about turning adversity into a virtue...i feel like the pope-)

"i feel like the pope-) "

an old guy who wears bedazzled stuff?

geez, travis, quit while your ahead, eh? :)

LOL Shannon...I can't help myself.

But seriously . . . this was great. I wonder if it will last? (Don't disappoint us and kill each other later, you guys.)

Wendy...yr welcome to cry on my shoulder-)...in fact, i insist

John...the armstice is holding so far...wish us luck

Firoze,

I would be forgiving if the remarks were against Jesus.

I believe in loving my enemies but in the event of a physical attack I am directed to take action. Those actions are a life for a life, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. In other words, how I respond to a physical attack depends on the severity of that attack, but I still love my enemy.

Best regards, Ben
Author "Leading People to be Highly Motivated and Committed"

to survive we all have to be forgiving.....grudges and anger take too much valuable time. You two have exhibited amazing grace, forgiveness and humility....an example we'd all do well to follow.
Firoze....how does it feel to open someones mind? It must be amazing!
And Travis I'm curious what it feels like to have your mind opened like this....
and my hat's off to you for apologizing...you are a true gentleman and that's rare nowdays.....I'd love to read that piece you're working on.

Colorin....colorao, este cuento se ha acabado...........

So glad to see something that was turning ugly end in an amicable disagreement.
Firoze and Travis, you are both gentlemen in my book