There seems to be a lot of debate about whether immigrants are taking jobs that Americans won't do, so lets just look into this and dig a little deeper into the subject.
Where I live, most of the Mexicans work on the local tobacco farms. The farmers are required by the Government to pay them $8.20 . Also, the farmers are required to provide housing and transportation for the Mexican workers. When I speak with the local farmers, they tell me that they wouldn't be able to get their crops in if it weren't for the Mexican workers because they can't get Americans to do the job.
So is tobacco work a job that Americans won't do ?
Consider this. In the case of the housing provided by the farmers, the Mexican workers live in the houses with several other Mexican workers. There is no overhead for them. No rent, no utility bills, no insurance, no car payment, no nothing. Would the farmers provide this for American workers ? Of course not. So is this a job that Americans will do? The answer is no.
Now let's look into factory work.
At one of the local chicken plants, 75 % of the employees are Mexican immigrants.. A few of my friends have applied for jobs at this plant, and they were turned down. So is this a job that Americans will do ? The answer is yes.
We also have a factory that manufactures electrical parts. This factory also has a history of hiring Mexican immigrants.Also, a few of my friends have applied for jobs at this factory only to be turned down. So is this a job that Americans will do ? The answer is yes.
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I do think that it is more likely that there are not enough Americans in the unskilled labor classes to do all the work. From my sketchy memory of economics, the United States is at or approaching full employment with an unemployment rate of less than 6%. This suggests that the hundreds of thousands of jobs that the illegals are doing would actually go begging if we were miraculously able to deport all of the people who should not be here.
Canada has recognized that this problem exists and they have set up a government employment agency specifically to deal with importing migrant workers for specific jobs and specific periods. The employers tell the government that they need X number of workers. They are brought in from Mexico or wherever, are paid a decent wage and given a ticket home when the job is over. The government knows who they are and where they are thus ensuring that they will (mostly) go home after they have finished their job. Mexico gets money, Canada gets workers and the workers do not pose a serious drain on government resources.
I have to wonder when they say Americans wont take the jobs, if the error is in the age of the American they are talking about....The kids were more than willing to do the work, and make the money they did, be outside with their friends, didnt mind it at all...is there not a serious problem with jobs for our young people...? This could be a possible solution to the concerns of many....
in highway work or landscaping, you have to work in extremely hot weather. frankly, americans are not used to being out in the fierce sun. in the summer, most arizonans stay in their houses, go to the mall, go to the theatres. but they don't go outside. now, an illegal immigrant might not have grown up with the convenience of air conditioning. they might be used to working in the sun. i don't know what the hiring/retention rates are in those industries.
but, even for office jobs, you see "spanish-speaking" or "bilingual". sometimes the pay is higher than they would pay non-spanish-speakers.
one thing i do know is that arizona is a right-to-work state. you accept what the employer offers, hope they do what they promise. there are a lot of silly workplaces down here. they put you on part-time "cause everyone starts part-time" and then you find that this is just an excuse not to extend benefits, that they do this to everyone and no one has any security. and there is nothing you can do except quit. the employers down in arizona know they have an employers job market. some employers will even tell you that their health plan is for the employee to get on welfare.
we have people who want work down here but they'd like a decent job. decent jobs are much harder to find.
First of all, nowhere in this article did I mention the word " illegal ".
I also mentioned jobs that Americans will do as well as jobs that Americans won't do.
The U.S. unemployment rate of less that 6% is an illusion. Yes, more and more Americans are working these days, but the jobs are mostly in retail or the service industry where the wages are near the minimum wage and hardly enough to support one person, more the less one's family.
In this article, the Mexican immigrants that I mentioned were " legal ".
I just can't wait for Senobia T. and Jackie Beltran to show up on this thread and call me a racist because I reffered to the immigrants as " Mexicans "
It's a shame that most jobs that are available to Americans are " part time " and near minimum wage.
I'm not talking about illegals in this article, but the numbers that you posted make sense. Just do the math people. Legal or illegal, these people are taking some jobs that Americans will do.
On a system like indentured servants.
Illegal immigrants from India.
Household help, prostitutes, selling other direct services, I now seem them as flea market sellers, mostly working for legal immigrants from India.
Illegal immigrants from Korea
On the west coast, at special "home" businesses assembling stuff and in restaurants and stores, hotels and, yes prostitutes.
Philipines,
The illegals,
Maids, private home health care providers, gardners, assemblers, restaurant workers, hotel workers, prostitutes.
I don't think many U. S. citizens want those jobs.
No legal immigrant would work at those jobs either. That is only a California snapshot of illegal immigrants, .
The ones not from Mexico.
Timothy, I apologize - you didn't say illegal I did. Your premise is correct in that there are many jobs that people say Americans won't do. Actually, while I think there are some, there are not many. Generally it is a specific person that will not do a particular job rather than a group that will not do it. If Port-a-potty companies can find Americans willing to dress up in hot, airless hazmat suites in the middle of the summer in the south and clean out portapotties, there is probably an American for every job - if you can just find him or her.
I find your article offensive. I cam to this country legally, from Sweden, when I was 8 years old with my parents.
I'm entitled to apply for the same job as you. Although I'm sure we'd never both apply for any simliar job, given your very limited intellect.
my children are now in their 30's. my late husband's granddaughter just got a job with a caterer last year and she was very lucky to get that. she's been interested in the food industry for some time and the school referred her to this job.
I know that this " legal " and " illegal " issue is confusing, so go ahead and post whatever you want to. I have to wonder why most of you haven't posted on my other articles.
You need to go back and read my article in it's entireity. My point is that immigrants are taking jobs that Americans will do, and Americans are being turned down for these same jobs in favor of the immigrants.
Personally, I really don't care where anyone is from. My point is equal employment rights.
When I first read the article I took it for granted that the writer meant "illegal" immigrants. But now I can see how you're offended by the article.
Its obvious that Timothy is an American Indian.
Your article stereotypes immigrants. Do you think that because I'm an immigrant that I should look for migrant work?
Many immigrants come to this country because of they possess expertise, that many Americans lack, in a certain areas.
as far as i'm concerned, legal immigrants are just fine with me.
i think our immigration policies are too restrictive and should be expanded. i think we allow about 700,000 people in to the united states per year, with quotas on many countries.
but adopting a country because the adopted country has better economics? i dunno. refugees can adopt countries because they would be in danger if they went back to their country. but economics?
i think we should have done a better job with foreign aid and with developing industry in mexico. instead, we just kind of let them sit there.
in the 1980's i was on a temp job working for a bank in their international banking department. they were having to write down/write off loans made to central and south america. the bank was none too pleased to be doing this. i was thinking that it might be a long time before we trusted that region again. i think i was right. the bank was writing them down/off because they couldn't make the payments. the bank's return was affected. but if they only could have waited a while, extended the repayment period or something. but i was a temp and my job at the time was typing, not thinking.
You still haven't read my entire article. You are reading things that aren't in my article.
What ?????
Right on !
Conside this. How would Jesus feel if an illegal immigrant stole Joe Johnson's identity? The illegal immigrant purchased a fake Social Security card that belonged to Joe Johnson. Joe's house has been repossesed. Joe has lost his good paying job and he is now working at Wal-Mart part-time fro $5.15 per hour. His family is hungry and he can't afford to feed them. Joe and his family are now living on the street in a cardboard box. Just what do you think that Jesus would think about that ?
This article wasn't intended towards illegal immigrants, however if you people can't read and you want to sling your crap about that subject, then bring it on. I can throw the crap back at you just as fast as you can throw it at me.
I'm glad that you brought up the Chinese immigrant issue. I've written several articles on that subject, and I've witnessed this first hand. This indentured servitude issue as well as Human Trafficking needs more attention from ICE.
Good grief! Being on the same continent doesn't entitle you to automatic citizenship in another country. And - "these people" HAVE NOT always been in the Americas - most of their ancestors are from SPAIN. (The Spanish wiped out most of the natives.)
Sigh........You don't need any more adversity - you've got your hands full of cider...lol...
I'll catch ya later!
Timothy - thanks for giving me a good laugh before I leave work for the day. (By the way, I have a job that no decent Mexican would ever agree to take - working for my husband!)
I don't believe there are jobs (of any kind) that Americans won't do. Our crops used to be picked by Americans who traveled to agricultural camps to pick them. These people were exploited as well, but they did the job anyway because farming was all they knew. The movie "Grapes of Wrath" comes to mind. I once worked with a man from Viet Nam. We were talking one day about Vietnamese culture, when I asked him if it was true that rats were part of their diet. He nodded his head and said yes. Then I asked him how can they possibly eat rats, and he said, "Have you ever been hungry?". Well I knew at once what he meant and I guess that is my point here. People will do whatever it takes to survive when they get hungry enough. The problem is, we as spoiled ass Americans have never been THAT hungry.....YET!
But it's coming !
My Dad spent some time in Korea just after the Korean war. He often tells me about the Koreans stealing dogs off of the Air Force base. He also said that the Koreans ate the dogs. I asked one of my Korean friends about this and she said that they ate the dogs becauce they were hungry, just as your Vietnamese friend stated, and then she pulled a squid out of her firdge, but that's another story !
I was wondering when you were going to show up on this thread..ha ha
My friends were turned down at the factories that I mentioned, not the farms.
You're right though, I shouldn't have included the illiegal immigrant tag. But then again nowhere in my article did I mention illegal immigrants. I also read the article that you linked in your post, and I suggest that every one does the same. The article was very well written and it does put a bit of a different twist on things.
Since I included the illegal immigrant tag, go ahead and post whatever you want about illegal immigrants.
Caroline " cam " to this country legaly, so obviously she has a very high IQ !
Since she has such a high IQ and I have a limited intellect, I'm sure that she will take my job in retail management since that job doesn't require a very high intellect.
And it appears that everyone that I dedated on this thread did the same.
I must agree with a lot of what you have stated so far. Whether we talk about legals or illegals, when it comes to jobs that require education, usually the person with the most education will stand the best chance at getting the job. Two candidates being educationally equal, the second most frequent factor determining who gets the job is who is willing to work for the lesser wage. On par with reason #2 is who is the most desperate and is willing to negotiate with the employer using pay, etc., as bargining chips. The employer is normally looking for the best qualified for the least amount of pay. The motivation for an illegal has another factor that legals do not have to contend with and that is fear. The employer can use the job and reporting to /ICE or INS the illegal as a means of control and as a hamer for lower wages. The illegal fears deportation and loosing the income. Now I must ask the question, "so what!" Legals have had the opportunity to educate themselves in the U.S. Education is available to everyone. If a legal has failed to avail themselves of the benefits of a good education and has been one of those that have simply been passed on and given false graduation certificates, that is their fault and their responsibility. The illegal can go to school as well. If they fail to avail themselves of what is available (and they know exactly what is available to them for free) and fails to use these benefits, that is their fault...not our responsibility! How many of them have been here for a decade or more and cannot speak English...whose fault is that? They are NOT interested in assimulation, they are only interested in getting whatever they can with as little effort as possible. The Mexicans turn to drug sales, gangs, and all sorts of other crime in a country that has programs available that can keep them out of criminal activity and yet they would rather be gang bangers! Their sense of worth, right and wrong, good and evil are morally bankrupt, the value of life is virtually non existant, even their own. Are there some that are potentially good people that could become real Americans, of course but they are a minority. The only reason they want citizenship is for the benefit of being non deportable and all the additional benefits they become "entitled" to. Will there be those that think I am too critical, lacking in compassion, a bigot, a racist, an uncle tom, of course. I don't care. The truth is right in front of everyone that cares enough to do some research into such things as educational stats, crime states, wage earning information, etc. Check out the census information. Check research that has already been done on the subjects by others. What I have stated is all true...perhaps unpopular to many but true non the less. I have no compassion for thieves, legal or illegal matters not. A thief is a thief.
Ok....Caroline from Sweden. You do a job that Americans cannot do? Ok. Under what context? Is it a sexual job? I know how you Euros are-Red Light Districts and all.
From the sounds of all of these posts it sounds like all immigrants are whores or make eggrolls.
From Timothy's vantage point it sounds like he is saying that 2/3 jobs new immigrants-naturalized immigrants-people new to the economy but came here legally take away from people that are already here.
Here is a flip side: My husband tried to get a work visa a few years ago to live in Spain and work for a bank at a company that he was already employed by in NYC. He was turned down because he was American and that job should go to a Spaniard.
He did not call the U.N. or an international branch of the ACLU because he felt violated. He decided to repsect the laws and the response to his application.
The last time I saw him he was a whore in Madrid.
He sends me a ham or, "Ham-On" as the Spaniards say, every Christmas.
I miss him.
sigh.
Jesus people...get a life. Let the Sombrero dudes and the Swedish Meatballs have a job. Life is too short to worry about this crap. If you cannot find a job in a field-get an education, take out a loan, and then pay it back. My IMMIGRANT grandparents and great grandparents had to do that. It builds character and pride.
Tim, with guys like William here on your side....well.......you'll figure it out.
I meant: Timothy is saying that non-illegals but legal immigrants take jobs from Americans.
Timothy-that does not make sense. If you are a legal immigrant then you are applying for citizenship and deserve a job.
If you are illegal-then you should not be able to take a job that a citizen needs.
We are all immigrants. This country is founded by them.
Actually, this country is founded by thieves.
I know you are hot for the Swede but let it rest man...Be not quick to judge...
Peace.
Congratulations: You have outdone yourself!
For someone who prides herself on being so loving and open minded-you seem to have me pegged without knowing anything about my views. A little self-righteousness never hurt anyone-yes?
I read what everyone posted and found it to be hillarious. We are all so wound up by this issue. It is an actual problem for people. It isn't just due to racism and a lack of education. There are people who feel violated by illegals and see every topic about immigration as a point to Mexico. That is why I responded...because I disagree with that assumption.
I know too many people who are "illegal" whether from south of the border or from across the Atlantic and know how hard they work just to be here and make a life for themselves. As you know from your encounters, it is not always so cut and dry for immigrants. They cannot become citizens in a week. It takes time.
As for being misinterpreted and misunderstood-by certain men who are hot for Swedes-well...yes...it created some twists and turns.
Not sure why my panties are in a bunch this evening. I am going to bed.
Excuse me.
But then I had the occasion last summer to drive from Seattle to Boston on Rt. 90. I've travelled to a number of places in the US, but never did the actual cross-country road trip before that. As I travelled through the west, besides being blown away by the incredible natural beauty, I was struck by the incredible isolation of its population. Geez, for the entire stretch of 90 through Wyoming, I didn't see one living creature - not even a cow! There were farms out in the middle of virtually nowhere, separated by miles and miles from the next sign of life.
My point is that people fear the unknown and unfamiliar. In the east, there is a much more condensed, diverse population and we tend to come into contact with people from all ethnic backgrounds, in various stages of assimilation, on a daily basis. You learn to live with and appreciate everyone's cultural heritage. I can see where you don't get the opportunity to do this in the west and southwest. Given that, I would suggest some travel, maybe trying some foreign movies from NetFlix and reading some foreign authors, and, most of all, keeping an open mind to new things and people.
(p.s. - on the language thing - so what if someone has limited knowledge of the English language? My grandparents mixed English and Polish in their speech throughout their 50+ years spent in the US after immigrating - all self-taught. After hearing some of the life-long US citizens of the West speak, it doesn't seem like they have a corner on the grammar market, either.)
If a candidate mentions comprehensive immigration reform and/or support for a guest worker program--it will mean amnesty/citizenship. Please investigate your candidates' opinions/goals on illegal immigration before you vote!! Don't vote strictly by party lines, vote on the candidate's plans/goals/opinions regarding illegal immigration.
If all of those illegal immigrants are given amnesty/citizenship--and they then are able to bring over immediate family members--the USA as we know and love it, will be changed forever. We will be turned into a third world country-- the economy and wages will be depressed forever, and our resources/social services/schools/healthcare systems will become over-extended failures. US citizens will face increased problems in trying to obtain decent jobs. In addition, your taxes will increase--as the illegals will be eligible for MORE social benefits (welfare, food stamps, WIC, low-income housing, etc.)--once they receive citizenship!!!
Please go to this Lou Dobbs site, on the right side of the screen you will see the headings below. Please look up to see how senators voted on illegal immigration issues. Please also send a message to congress stating--No amnesty/citizenship, revise the 14th Amendment (no more anchor babies), and enforce our current immigration laws. Also, make sure that you always watch Lou Dobbs on CNN--as he is the only person in media that goes out of his way to make sure that the LEGAL US citizens are aware of everything that is going on in our country.
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/
Look for the following:
YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS
How senators voted on key issues
Send a message: Tell Congress what you think
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight
Here are some videos/sites that I definitely recommend to state on top of all of the immigration news.
Aztlan/Reconquista video----The belief by groups such as La Raza ("the race"), Mecha, Maldef, Brown Berets, etc.--that they are going to take back US territory that formerly belonged to Mexico.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STGYN3vyEj8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=JCCVUot-hBo
www.americanpatrol.com
www.lawatchdog.com
http://anti-illegalimmigrationevents.com
www.numbersusa.com
www.minutemanproject.com
http://www.mexica-movement.org/ENTERHERETEXTONLY.htm
http://www.aztlan.net
It was not meant to sound self-righteous or offend and I apologize if it sounded that way...
First, the immigrant issue confronting American is the Latino's, not Swedes, etc. They're not coming here, or even being allowed to come here, by the millions.
Statically, the Latino immigration problem evolves around the majority that are coming here are uneducated and unskilled. They can only take such jobs that they are inheritably associated with. Where the problem really falls is Americans cannot work as the immigrants in question do, for a number of reasons.
One such area is construction. The bulk of sub crews doing work are illegal, but more importantly, uninsured, unlicensed, and unaccountable. Luckily some states are cracking down; others are still turning their heads. Bottom-line, most state laws require a construction sub-crew to be licensed, bonded and insured. If not, they must be listed as employees of the main contractor under contract for the job. What this boils down too as an example is, ABC Builders takes bids to frame five houses. Ed has eight employed crew members, is licensed, has insurance on all employees, pays business and personal taxes, etc. Jose has a business card, has twelve crew members, has no license, no insurance, and only pays earned income taxes. Ed bids 25,000, Jose bids 15,000. Jose wins! But, Jose has a worker fall off the roof and requires $150,000+ in medical treatments. Jose has no insurance, the builder says Jose was a sub-contractor and is not held responsible. Therefore, you and I pay Jose's injured workers medical cost. How much has America saved?
Another major problem: Four Latino immigrant families with a total of twelve kids share one rented single family home. But, there are multiple similar immigrant families with similar circumstances in the same area. All their kids attend the local public schools. Local schools find their school population has more than doubled, but their tax base has not. Who is covering the cost difference?
You see, its not that American's won't do all the jobs in question, but as just one example shown, which there are truly many, Ed can't because he is a legitimate and law abiding business, or was. The problem with the immigrants in question is, if they could care less about our immigration laws, why would you think they would care about things like our zoning, building, tax, criminal or civil laws?
The issue is not that they will work for $8.20 an hour; it's that it is probably costing tax payers about $25+ an hour for each of them that work here to cover all the social and public services they're abusing.
Yes, legal immigrants have the same rights to jobs as American citizens do, but for Christs sake American citizens should have the same rights to jobs as legal immigrants do. In this article I stated that 75 % of the local chicken plant's employees are Mexican immigrants. The population of this town is 10,000 with appx 1000 Mexican immigrants ( most work in tobacco ). Also consider that a local tire plant recently closed forcing thousands of American workers onto the unemployement line.
Now let's do some simple math. Only 10% of the population is Mexican. 75% of the chicken plant's employees are Mexican. Now that's not quite fair. That's not giving the American citizens of this town a fair shot at the same jobs, and these ARE jobs that Americans will do.
No I haven't outdone myself, I think that I actually blew Porgie off the map with this thread ! ha ha
With people like William on my side and people like Eliza not on my side ? It's very educational to see these different points of view, and ain't it fun ?
Legals are fine as long as they don't adversly affect US citizens. It's like invinting some homeless people to your home this thanksgiving and 5,000 show up. We want to help but don't suffocate us.
In NY a "dayworker" makes approx. $125/day = $750/wk take home, and most of that goes back doesn't even stay in this country. If they cram in they can live for $50/wk, when I tried to share a house with 2 others (3 total)this local town threatened to fine me $1,000/DAY for zoning violations.
Will the IRS give us amnesty if we don't pay our income taxes?
How many of you take home $750/wk and can live for $50/wk?
troublmkr is right, we can rebuild a country that want us dead why can't we rebuild a country that loves us? We can clean their water for irrigation and make the workers ALL own a part of this company exporting fruits and veggies to US. Heck we desalinize the water for Iraq, we rebuild their roads, sewar, buildings????
Imagine what we would have if we put the Billions weekly in Iraq into Mexico!
They are not Indians, They are the indigenous people of the wrongly named land. LOL. But really you need to stop bagging on Tim. Tim at no point said immigrants legal or illegal should work crappy, low paying, no bene jobs. He did say that friends of his applied for unskilled labor jobs and were turned down because they were American. Where is the justice?.
You cant threaten Iran with military action from Mexico. But if you have troops based on the east side of Iran in friendly Afghanistan, and twice that amount based on the west side of Iran in good ol Iraq. We can rattle the saber pretty damned loud. Besides what would the wealthy get from developing Mexico.