Questioning oneself....

I very much agree with you. Aren't most religions based on the same tenets of love for your fellow man? If we all do the right thing, what your heart tells you, the world would be a better place.

I always fail to understand there is a difference BECAUSE it is not.
I agree with Joanne
love and light

I couldn't agree with the both of you more, as I often ask myself these same questions on a daily basis given how insane the world seems today. My thoughts extend to issues pertaining to race and discrimination, as well. I am not a religious person by any means, but I am spiritual in nature. I was raised to love my fellow man and to extend my hands to others in a gesture of friendship and respect, regardless of the color of their skin, their religious choices, cultural mores and standards. To me, far beyond the color of our skin, our cultural heritages and religious backgrounds, we are all the same: we are human beings. We bleed, We cry. We laugh. We get sick. Why others fail to see this truth perplexes me, or maybe I am just naive and I am missing something.

Until others actively see this and learn how to see each other for the people we are underneath the flesh, nothing will change. It sad and painful to bear witness to this. I find it immeasurably depressing, but I will continue to extend myself to others with the hope that maybe I have touched a life.

Today's leaders know they gain their power in attempting to draw division amoung us.....saved vs not saved, patriot vs unpatriotic, believer vs non-believer, etc.

True leaders, Religious or Political, will strive to promulgate unity over division.

A good article and good thought; the late, and greatly missed, author and teacher, Sri Eknath Easwaran wrote excellent books to help the followers of each major religous tradition to find the greatest meaning within their religion, and he inculcated a great respect for the shared values and truths. And most simply speaking, an elderly Russian-born teacher of psychology once said, 'A religion which draws people to God and teaches them to love others, is a good religion; a religion which makes people afraid of God, or turns them against others, is a bad religion."
Her words, I think, were very good words. Some of you may have read in other comments that though I myself follow the Christian path, I have dear friends who are Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish and some who follow the Native American paths; yet we all love and honor one another. Truth and love are meant to be shared.

I must agree with all of the above

Gautami, I have had several Hindu friends. I personally am not Hindu nor do I subscribe to any one faith. As a guest and member of a Unitarian Universalist church, I have found my time there to be warm and comforting. And inspiring! I find it interesting that one cannot convert to Hinduism. This I do not point out as a judgement, but find it disheartening! I call myself a buddhist, for all intents and purposes. I agree religious intolerance and the ties that bind those who do subscribe to any one faith to be too limiting! This is just me. But like Julian says, I think seeking the highest meaning of any faith should be the most important goal to have!

What I really meant is:

Does it really matter what religion or faith we follow? The foremost religion should be belief in humanity. According to Hinduism...God is present within all of us. In animate as well as inanimate objects.

Hinduism is a very tolerant religion. It does not impose upon other religions. Nor does it look down down upon other religions.

As for as converting to Hinduism, now one can.....but thats exactly what I mean. Why should we limit ourselves to one religion? Why can't we follow more than one? Why not take the essnce of all and follow the path of humanity.

I so agree!

Gautami, I completely agree with you. I don't think it should matter what religion or faith we should follow, just as I don't think it should honestly matter who we choose to marry or what clothes we wear or who we are friends with and why. We should be given the space to determine our own choices and to seek knowledge in whatever avenue we seek, provided that it is to the good of humanity and our own spirits.

To do this however, means that people have to expand their visions and world view - to accept that other beliefs and value systems are comparable to our own, and of equal value. Unfortunately I think most of us fear that which is unknown or appears different, and we push it aside, thinking it unworthy and meaningless - that our way is the better way, when in fact it may not be the case. All ways are te better way, not just one.

I once got into a mild disagreement with a woman on a forum I frequent that deals with issues with motherloss. I am not a combative person by nature, but I will speak to what I feel and if need be, set limits and boundaries where I have to. In many cases I simply ignore the drivel I read, but this time I couldn't. Anyway, the group consisted of women who lost their mothers at some point in their lives. Its primary thrust was to offer a forum in which we could speak about our journeys and discuss how loss impacted our lives, and at its various stages. Since my own mother had been dead for over 30 years, I had a wealth of experiences to share and had a different perspective from those who had lost their mother more recently than I.

One day the moderator asked this question, "Where do you think your mothers are right now?" Many women responded that they felt their mother's were in heaven, while I responded that my mother rested within me, the cosmos and in the spirit of nature. I commented that I felt her presence around me and that it gave me comfort knowing - or feeling - that perhaps she WAS there, even if I couldn't see her. Most people received and accepted this, except for one woman, a staunch Catholic who sent me a private email insisting my mother was in heaven and with Jesus. I don't have a problem with this belief but it isn't something I personally relate to.

My reaction to this was at first anger, and then amusement. I realized that she was someone who believed that her world view was right, while mine was clearly off the wall. She was not someone who was willing enough to see or accept that others don't think or feel as she does. I wrote her back and explained that while I accepted and respected her feelings and beliefs, she needed to learn to understand that I have my own, as well, based on my upbringing, etc. I commented that what was right for her was right FOR her, just as what I believed was right for me. I cautioned her that making such a judgement call online might offend others more adamant than I, and that acceptance is the key in life, not judgement. She got it, and that was that. But it illustrates our discussion here.

I see no reason why we can't follow more than one path. Buddhists seem to have a similar view. I believe there are many paths to God.

An excellent article.

I like this too gautami, don't forget to send it to me for your column

I have pondered this so often.

Speaking in generalizations, would one not assume that religious people might be kinder, more accepting, more loving and more welcoming to all others, regardless of race or beliefs than non-religious people? I assumed so. Are not those the foundations of most religious tenets...kindess, love, and acceptance for all? Wow was I in for a rude awakening. Though there are many religious people who fit that description, to me it seems that the majority are much more concerned with forcing their beliefs on others and drawing a very blatant dividing line between people who share their beliefs and those who don't. This line is not simply a definition, but a very real separation of "us" and "them". That line dismays me.

I am beginning to find more and more wisdom in the writings of J. Krishnamurti, who believed that ANY kind of labels we use to describe ourselves by definition divide us. He believed there can be no learning where there is authority in any form. He said:
"We must be very clear on this matter from the very beginning. There is no belief demanded or asked, there are no followers, there are no cults, there is no persuasion of any kind, in any direction, and therefore only then we can meet on the same platform, on the same ground, at the same level. Then we can together observe the extraordinary phenomena of human existence."

For me, this is true spirituality, and the reason why I steer clear of religions.

I don't think it is because of religion that people divide themselves, but in spite of it. People separate themselves on many grounds, any grounds it seems. The fear of the "other", and the closely related fear of aloneness, are used by manipulators on all sorts of levels, from prime ministers, to clergymen, to parents, to the individual person. In many cases religion can be a force against such division I think, but like anything else, it is corruptible.

Being against religion is often a source of divisiveness as well, and even being against differences based on it. There is no belief system free of this danger, no special case. Each human being must drop all pretence of superiority, for in the very moment of such thinking, one is being petty and judgemental. Who really can say that another has or has not arrived at a valid understanding of the world, or the universe. Human intelligence is not understood by any mind. That would be impossible, for the mind is clearly but the surface level of a vastly more powerful, profound system of events. We do not even know what thought is or how it comes into being. How could we know our thoughts of another human beings inward reality were truly reliable.

John Knight,
"Who really can say that another has or has not arrived at a valid understanding of the world, or the universe."
I completely agree, because we all arrive at our own understanding that works for us. I just wish that in doing so, people would not judge others beliefs and self-righteously proclaim theirs as "right".

And let me be clear, I am not "against" religion, I choose to steer clear of it. That is why I prefaced the sentence with "For me,". I do agree that religion in and of itself is not a bad thing, but the meddling of men (and women) that corrupts it.

The whole concept of right and wrong is an interesting one, anyway. Because who is to say that whatever choice was made or action was taken that could be labeled "wrong" was not the exact thing that needed to happen so that lessons could be learned by the parties involved? Does that then make it "right"? I find that concept fascinating...and it encourages my lack of judgement, which is always a good thing.

When you start talking about not knowing what thought is or how it comes into being...that gets a bit too abstruse for my inclinations, however. Perhaps i just need more sleep...

A detail of the Reformed Christian churches that seems relevant- A Protestant churchperson will NEVER say The church forgives, or I forgive-it is the gracd of he lord that forgives-so that one is in direct contact with God. Of course there is right and wrong-as there are things that are cruel and kind. Religions did not invent guilt and remorse-guilt and remorse built religions.

Gautami! *big wide smile* I agree! I, too, am a "humanist"! I understand!

Wendy,

I hadn't meant to address you in particular, this was something I see a lot of, and the article triggered thoughts from other times. I guess the recent radical anti-Islam talk is what I see most often. And the rise of "political Christians" seems to feed into a very casual attitude about blaming religion without any real consideration of real world people, just stereotypes. I actually here quite often someone say something like, "what a wonderful world this would be if all religion would just go away." In reality of course, the vast bulk of crime and violence has nothing to do with religion, and of course non-religious people are more likely to try to harm others. I suppose folks are associating everyday members with the statements of the more extreme voices exploiting in perversions of that "faith".

By the way, Mr. Krishnamurti has long been a source of great wisdom for me. I actually got to see him speak in person a few times. Amazing insight he had. If you read him more, your bound to realize now, that the line about the mind and thought is straight out of Jidu's teaching. It's something anyone can grasp if they take a few minutes to think through. It's also the view science takes as well. It makes the thing you were saying about being careful in how we view "right and wrong" much easier to see in action.

Ahh the stereotyping, thanks for the clarification, John. How wonderful that you were able to hear Krishnamurti speak! In the last years of his life, he spent a lot of time in Ojai, 5 miles from where I live, which is where one of his schools is located. I feel quite blessed to have been able to send my daughter to a Krishnamurti school for her first 4 years. I found Krishnamurti because of the school, not vice-versa. Though his writings were sometimes too esoteric for me, I am growing into them bit by bit. The goings-on in the world today have created in me an inclination to return to his wisdom.

Liz, I so agree. Listening with the heart puts the mind and ego aside, and then it seems the truth is evident.

Gautami, thank you for initiating this thought-provoking subject!

Liz,

I agree too that listening to what you call the "heart" is critical, yet I believe we may not be hearing quite the same voice. Your words; It is gone, and no longer interferes with their life, are to me quite problematic. And this is in fact, an essential part of the "message" we have spoken of many times. I hope you will take some time to consider this realm of possibility, and not dismiss it out of hand.

This is NOT a simplistic sentiment or article. Institutionalized religion can and is often construed for political and financial gain and has caused many a war. The my God is better than your god mentality is a neverending source of strife and conflict and you make an excellent, thought provoking point. Thank you for clarifying this for the close minded..

Now this is something. And I thought I was rambling. Good to see so many responses, so many thoughts.

We need thinking minds. That way we can get rid of the evils of religion and consider humanity as our religion.

JK advocated what is known as the basic tenements of Hinduism. He had the insight it see it for what it was.

Non-religion is not being agfainst religion. It is basically following the dictates of what is wrong or right.

Why can't we have a world religion...devoid of all known and practiced faiths. A religion of tolerance and brotherhood. A new world order. The temples of worships should be convrted into temples of learning. The purists have had their ways for two long. It's time to change all that. Believe you me, it will happen, when the world, as we see it today, is challanged by outside forces from space!