The Pro-Illegals would love to have those of us in the middle and lower class believing their rhetoric that IMMIGRATION is good for us, which begs the question, GOOD FOR WHOM?
There is and obvious disconnect somewhere, if illegals are so good for all of us, why do so many Americans oppose Amnesty, and on some level support various plans that include deportation of illegals? Could it be that most of us are NOT GOING TO BENEFIT from these illegals invading our borders, and infesting our communities. Read what the United Nations says on the topic, and decide for yourselves.
For the distribution of gains and losses due to migration, a key issue is whether, or to what extent, immigrants complement, or compete with, local workers. An important point to note is that labor is not homogeneous within or across countries. Thus, when unskilled foreign workers directly compete with similar workers in the receiving country, all things being equal, the latter are likely to lose, owing to the likely to lose, owing to the likely downward pressure on their jobs and wages. On the other hand, employers/owners of firms engaged in labor-intensive production, consumers of their products, and the immigrants themselves, would gain.
Despite folks like JAckie Beltran, Snobia and even Web Writer trying to convince us differently, persons such as myself SPEAK TRUTH. Our jobs are being taken, our wages being depressed, while BIG BUSINESS and the illegal aliens benefit.
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Comments: 31
i don't understand why anyone would have an opinion about our immigration policies except americans. no one has a RIGHT to be in any particular country except its citizens.
if we need more foreign workers or immigration, fine, move the standards/quantity. if mexico needs financial help to see to the needs of its people, fine, we should work with them to get them on the right road.
but no, i don't agree that people should be able to cross the border and live here without abiding by our laws. no, i don't think we need to translate government documents into other languages.
we do have benefits as american citizens. i don't think we should be forced to extend them to non-citizens.
i find it particularly obnoxious when people from another country think they are going to "take back" parts of our country. some of them don't want to be american citizens. they want to stay where they are and be mexican citizens and they want us to either move or cede lands.
As far as jobs go. I think that if you want to work - you can find a job in this country. I don't believe that illegals are taking over.
The businesses are definitely outsourcing our jobs, however. These positions such as customer service and computer programming are being done in places like India. It is a shame that businesses are allowed to do this.
Cingular (now purchased by the new ATT) has all American service and is very good at it.
It was torture dealing with the people ATT had outsourced service to and I just want to mention that in case anyone is weighing options in cell service. I will vote with the few dollars that I have.
Check these web sites regularly for the latest news links regarding this invasion:
http://www.americanpatrol.com
http://www.idexer.com
http://steinreport.com
http://www.mnforsustain.org/immg_mn_state_illegals_costs_erickson_p3.htm
This is from Minnesota
These laws are not new, but never before have illegals crossed in such large numbers, the wave of illegals into America the largest invasion in human history.
Because we could absorb them, because the numbers were managable, because we are a compassionate society, with a wink and a nod we said....OK, one more. Think of it like a concert....letting one or two in who could not afford to buy a ticket, and no one says a thing. Ten, even twenty and someone is going to take you aside and say hey....I know you are trying to be nice, but people are starting to get upset. However, when it gets to the point of 20 MILLION....there can be no wink and a nod.
Let me give you and example....a kid breaks into my house and steals something. The police come, the police arrest him. The DA calls a few weeks later, wants to make a deal so that this kids life is NOT RUINED with a criminal record. Now, I can accept financial redress, state I am fine with the deal, and kid walks free. It's my choice....I tell the DA to make the deal. Now, lets say three months later, another kid breaks into my house, same story unfolds....you can bet your money I am going to insist on criminal prosecution. This situation is much the same. When the numbers were MANAGABLE, Americans were willing to say....OK, they made a mistake, and we can absorb them, so lets forget about prosecuting them, lets give them AMNESTY (as we did in 1986 WITH CERTAIN PROMISES). Now, 20 years later, those promises have not been kept, our house has been invaded a second time, and by three times the number of bodies....we want them prosecuted this time around.
Anyway, coming back to the immigration being bad for us, one just can't say it so bland. We gained some through them. We are not at total lose. If its not for these legal and illegal work force (both – one with the advancing computers and research and the other at reducing our production costs in our fields and factories), we might had not been able to compete this well in the global market during 80s and 90s. Now they are over whelming and we don't want to, as our parents did, compete and win. We want an easy solution.
I don't know what exactly the UN report is saying, but are all these nations fools to let immigration if it is so bad? You think they don't do their math?
As I frankly think, the whole immigration debate is a nuisance. The main problem due to Illegal immigration is terrorism and terrorism alone. Even if you want to talk about tax dollars, as all the reports say, most of these 12 million work under fake or false SSN number. If you have a pay check, you are paying taxes. So, most of them are paying taxes. If you want to talk about jobs, yes, you have to compete with wages, but they are not only taking job, but they are creating jobs as well. Also helping more business to grow as they provide market ( they buy things and use services – so you need more service people to serve them – creating jobs). You can argue that these jobs are not as fast growing as they are taking them. Well, we can not say that from the information available. Most people want to do math, but honestly no one put it into numbers … not yet at least.
We need to have control over our borders, we need to know who are in our country and what they are doing, we need to know what jobs and what area are these people are working and how it is really effecting us. The only way for that is if the federal government take a massive undertaking of getting the things straight. We failed to connect the dots before 9/11 and will be doing the same if we are just satisfied with the dubious bills that they are passing just for political show down. We need a comprehensive bill that addresses the whole immigration system. Not just patching it, but a massive reformation in our immigration system. By comprehensive, I don't mean the comprehensive that our Capitol Hill residents talk about. I mean that which can not be broken. Which addresses all the inter-related issues once and for all at-a-time, not one at a time.
With their support and sympathy of illegal immigration, they are just as guilty as our government officials and polititians of eliminating the " middle class Americans " who have driven our economy for years. Inturn, our national debt is rising and more and more middle class Americans are filing bankruptcy.
Illegal immigrants who come here can pile up in a house, with as many as 20 to 30 living there splitting the bills, so yes they can survive on the minimum wage of $5.15 ( which by the way hasn't increased since 1997 ) or less.
We middle class Americans are not used to that. We have worked hard , and we have the right to own our own house and live only with our family, not with 20 or 30 other people. But if we don't wake up very soon, that's how we middle class Americans are going to be forced to live.
The problems of third world countries such as China and Mexicao are not our problems, but they soon will be if we don't take a stand .
Let's examine the above entry by Anil, shall we?
"This is not just because of illegal immigrants. Even legal immigrants work for less and more hours than Americans."
HUH? NOW, WHO DOES THAT SOUND LIKE?
"Anyway, coming back to the immigration being bad for us, one just can't say it so bland. We gained some through them. We are not at total lose. If its not for these legal and illegal work force (both – one with the advancing computers and research and the other at reducing our production costs in our fields and factories), we might had not been able to compete this well in the global market during 80s and 90s. Now they are over whelming and we don't want to, as our parents did, compete and win. We want an easy solution."
HUH? NOW WHO DOES THAT SOUND LIKE?
"So, most of them are paying taxes. If you want to talk about jobs, yes, you have to compete with wages, but they are not only taking job, but they are creating jobs as well. Also helping more business to grow as they provide market ( they buy things and use services – so you need more service people to serve them – creating jobs). You can argue that these jobs are not as fast growing as they are taking them. "
WELL SAID, ANVIL: KEEP TALKING....
"We need to have control over our borders, we need to know who are in our country and what they are doing, we need to know what jobs and what area are these people are working and how it is really effecting us. The only way for that is if the federal government take a massive undertaking of getting the things straight. We failed to connect the dots before 9/11 and will be doing the same if we are just satisfied with the dubious bills that they are passing just for political show down. We need a comprehensive bill that addresses the whole immigration system. Not just patching it, but a massive reformation in our immigration system. By comprehensive, I don't mean the comprehensive that our Capitol Hill residents talk about. I mean that which can not be broken. Which addresses all the inter-related issues once and for all at-a-time, not one at a time. "
WELL.....I must say, Anvil, you are a really bright person. You seem to have given this a great deal of thought. There are others of us here, as Timothy mentions, who have said THAT VERY SAME THING! IMAGINE THAT!!!
Hmmmm.....speaking for myself now.....
I do not deny that they are criminals - I DENY that they are not objects, not dogs to be starved and shot when we have no more use for them.
Anvil: My opinion is that we, as a nation, by default and our own disregard for OUR OWN laws, allowed this situation.
We should take responsibility for our actions and reach a humane solution. By humane I do not mean "amnesty." By humane, I do not mean inaction. By humane, I do not mean "free ride."
Humane = Humane
My views and other similar opinions are attacked at every opportunity. You see, there are those who feel we should be attacked, many times personally, for our beliefs.
But, in the end, how different are most of them - really?
For example, Anvil, I think any person not of this nation, who would commit a felony against any other person in this nation - should be considered a terrorist and treated appropriately.
Likewise, I think any hard-working farmworker should be given acknowledgement for doing a job very few of us want - and for far less pay - which translates into savings for the consumers of the U.S.
Hmmmmm......I'd say, we almost agree, Anvil.
If you're interested in more of my articles, feel free to put IMMIGRANT DIARIES in the search above.
See you soon, JB
The Mexican Gov't has even paid for a lawyer for the cop killer in Houston! They print maps, and brochures with tips on how to cross our border safely to try and minimize the death loss due to the lack of water. The Mexican Gov't has completely lost control in Nuevo Laredo to the drug gangs, and now the violence is spreading all up and down the river. The Mexican army is helping the drug gangs by running protection for them into our country. Vicente Fox fights us on any type of control that we try to use to help with this problem, while they vigoursly secure their own Southern border to stop illegal immigration, and the illegals I have talked to are much more afraid of being picked up in Mexico than they are here. How about all the murders, rapes, slavery, robbery, death from dangerous transportation by some of the most inhumane types of people, death by dehydration, that happens primarily by Mexican Nationals on their own people, that is encouraged by the Mexican gov't. The Mexican gov't finds it easier to export their problems to us instead of trying to fix it themselves and we are just letting them do it.
And I get to watch them flying their flags at our post office, saying the Mexican Pledge of Allegiance at our schools and demonstrating not for rights or humane treatment, but for access to our system of benefits, that we cannot afford for ourselves. Where is the sense in all of this? Build a fence and get the National Guard down here, or else we might as well accept the fact that Ca, Nm, Az. And Tx. Are all going back to Mexico, whether we like it or not., and Mexico is actively promoting.
We CARE what the world wants in the face of human rights abuses on our soil? SINCE WHEN?
DO you not think the world sees the strongest, greatest nation on earth - and SEES?
Of course they do.
Do I think we can absorb all the illegals....UH DUH....Porgie: WE ALREADY HAVE.
IF we, as you say, we had already absorbed the ones here, we would NOT be having this arguement....yes, they are here, but they ARE NOT ABSORBED.
The illegal immigrants fromsouth of the U.S. border try to enter the U.S. illegally for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost is our set of immigration laws that require an American citizen sponsor that will take care of them financially and medically until they can go through the immigration maze, gain employment, learn to speak english, and in general...become contributors, not takers. Secondly, they must pass health exams FIRST. The leoprosy that has ecome almost an epidemic, the Tuberculosis that has rebounded from virtually being non existant, the hepatitus that is rampant today all is traceable to illegal immigrants that did not go through medical testing. They knew/know that they will not be permitted to be here if they were so tested. They have no money and no health care and know that in Mexico where corruption is the watchword of the day, every day, that they canot get medical help for themselves or their children except perhaps through the churches if the church funds are no exhausted. The Mexican government knows this and encourages and actually help illegals get into the country and gives them directions on how to seek out medical aid. The downside is huge, medical trauma centers are bankrupt due to illegals using them as family physicians for colds, cuts, coughs, and minor things that most of us take care of ourselves. Many of these centers are now closed. In Tucson, a new hospital and trauma center were built 5-6 years ago near south Tucson, a city within the city that is 100% hispanic. The trauma center there closed about 3-4 years ago thanks to illegals without money or insurance and legal citizens of this country were unable to access the very system that they paid to construct. The illegals that are mexican/hispanic talk in group in their native alnguage and think that those of us fluentin English do not understand what they say. I do understand them and have heard them discussing and brag about how they got free this or that, how they lied, how the police are not to be feared as they will not turn them in. It is disgusting and typical of the thought process of the illegal 'immigrant'. Personally I think of them more as thieves as opposed to immigrants. Immigrants want to become part of where they immigrate to. The hispanics don't. They are loyal only to Mexico and simply are here for whatever they can gain at the expense of others. Are there a few that really want to become Americans, yes, but they are few and far between.
William M.
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That won't be the end of it however. Those from south of the American border cannot survive on their own. If there is an American flight from the states you mention to other still U.S. property the hispanics will, of necessity, have to follow. They are not capable of doing this on their own and would still require the aid they currently receive once they get here. They would continue to invade and access our systems. They would be like an untreated cancer and consume.
Anyone think not?,,Answer me this...Why are these intelligent and committed illegals aliens unable to contribute and raise the income level of their home countries. Why must they leave them instead of fixing them? They are incapable folks and they need us to be Nannys and care givers. If their labor is so valuable, why does Mexico not attempt to keep them from leaving that country. It because they have no value whatsoever! They keep manufacturing children so that the men can claim to be macho by showing their fertility which is really only proving how stupid/ignorant they are since they know that they can barely feed themselves, let alon children. The best thing for the U.S. is to close the borders to these kinds of immigration, enforce the laws we have and encourage Mexico to stop being so corrupt and take careof its own.!!! William M.
I agree with all the Macho thing and Mexico Govt.
Jackie, Thank you! I like politics, diplomacy and economics, I try my best to keep up with them. It's hard to get the accurate facts in this polarised world. A little thought and common sense can expose the facts though. I will look at your posts.
I wish Mexico do something to help its own people and we do much enough to stop the illegals coming here. I want safe borders that we control. But it is not responsible to say things like that, that are not true.
I appreciate LEGAL immigrants from ALL COUNTRIES. I do not appreciate, and do see as scum ALL CRIMINALS, and not just illegals. Rapists, murderers, drug dealers, thieves, you name it, don't like them.