Support The Troops Means More Than A Yellow Magnet On Your SUV

Sean....this is nothing new....these blood-suckers have been around military bases since the dawn of time. Every GI is warned about them, knows who & what they are....yet ebcause our government will not pay them as they should & deserve they must in times of need resort to using these guys..!

Concur, Donald. Nothing new to this one. Families on food stamps often have to resort to borrowing from loan sharks, the only ones who will give them loans. After all, they are not good credit risks.

The public certainly seems not to give a damn that these families could use some reasonable benefits and the Congress has been too often anti-military, mainly liberals of both parties. During my career when Congress was under Democrat control, Congress steadily year after year reduced benefits. What we had in the '50s had all but disappeared by the mid '70s. The military is doing better now, but the "living wage" I hear so much here on Gather re Wal-Mart has never been applied to the military. While the families of 9/11 victims got hundreds of thousands, the military dead got very little though it has now been increased.

Best regards, Ben
Author "Leading People to be Highly Motivated and Committed"

Nice to see your concern Sean as it deals with a particuliar party/leader. As Ben and the others noted, Joe has never been overpaid and likely never will be. its been far worse in the past. At least the Joes today don't have to go enmass to get the leftover Cs and MREs from field problems like they used to do. The general public never has cared nor have most politicians unless it can be used in a political fight.

Judging by the slant you put on it, I guess this must be a plot by one party(which might it be?!?) Donald has it right, even Romans complained of such practices. Joe is told about it and has other resources for emergency aid instead of loan sharks. Anyway, nice to see you "supporting" Joe now, try not to forget them if your party wins control of the House or Senate- that money instead could really buy some serious votes from the 'needy'.

So, what y'all are saying is that because it is nothing new a.) we really shouldn't do anything about it because it really isn't that bad or b.) we really shouldn't do anything about it because it's all really a partisan fight anyways? Is that what y'all are saying? That for various reasons or the other we shouldn't even try?

The bottom line is this: if we expect to have a world class military the men and women in uniform have to be paid top-notch or why should they volunteer? There is nothing political about that. It's a duty. Not politics.

Great comments, and Cheri, you are right about the predatory practices of military recruiters --things will only get worse as long as our current leaders continue to use a "back door draft" policy. Here is a lnk to an excellent Christian Science Monitor article:

Terrorism & Security

posted August 23, 2006 at 11:30 a.m.

'Backdoor draft'?

'Critical shortage' prompts involuntary recall of reservists by US Marines.
By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com

In a move that critics denounce as a 'backdoor draft," the US Marines and Army are recalling to active duty thousands of men and women who have been discharged for several years. According to the Associated Press, thousands of Marines are being recalled because of "a shortage of volunteers" to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And as for the predatory lending practices targeting our military families, it is a real danger.

Here is an excerpt from an excellent article posted today on Realty Times, I added the link below the comment:

Pentagon Opens War Against Predatory Lending
by Broderick Perkins

"...the Pentagon remains on high alert because, the report says, "Predatory lending undermines military readiness, harms the morale of troops and their families, and adds to the cost of fielding an all volunteer fighting force ... . Financial issues account for 80 percent of security clearance revocations and denials for Navy personnel."

http://realtytimes.com/rtcpages/20060815_pentagonlending.htm

It's not just these so called loan companies But bussinesses to my son ordered a ring from Bhuyan jewelers website back in Feb. of this year while he was in Iraq and never recieved it. they said they nolonger made the ring and he would have to get another one. I have spent so many hours no months trying to get his money back. I finnally got 600.00 of the 850.00 back and was told by the police department and several layers that I would have to go to PA to fight for the rest of the money and I live in Ga. not only that but it would cost me about 700.00 or more in expenses to get back the other 250.00. so the best I can do is suck it up that this company has screwed my son out of 250.00 and tell everyone I can think of to not shop at this company on line they will cheet you out of your money any way they can. they promised to make things right till the time expired for paypal to do anything or his bank to do anything to get his money back. So be ware that paypal only gives you about 45 days and most banks give 30 days to help after that you are on your own

Gee, it really does look like support the troops really does mean nothing more than a yellow sticker on people's cars. True colors shine through when it comes to money.

It is not a matter of money, Sean. You recommend controlling loan sharks with new laws and no way to enforce them. Your approach is ill-considered and unworthy of our country. If you want to help them for sure, create a government low or zero interest loan program to tide them over and have it administered by the USO or their base commander. Either that or pay them a lot more, but I doubt the latter would ever pass.

Best regards, Ben
Author "Leading People to be Highly Motivated and Committed"

I wonder if anyone knows the pay for e-1 through e-6 excluding baq or dependent allowances ? /

But it is a matter of money, as you just said: "If you want to help them for sure, create a government low or zero interest loan program to tide them over and have it administered by the USO or their base commander. Either that or pay them a lot more, but I doubt the latter would ever pass."

If it wouldn't pass, why do so many people pretend they "Support The Troops?"

Those kinds of programs cost money. They aren't free. I'd be happy to see some of my taxpayer money go to that, as opposed to an Osprey Project that's been a joke and a waste of money. There are solutions here. But, it seems to me that a Yellow Sticker on a car is a lot easier than participating in our democracy.

Sean-Paul I'm a 25 yr old active duty airman. I own a house, two cars a dog and a jetski and I take great offense at the implication that I am poor or that I am too stupid to avoid such high interest businesses. When you speak of Bush or quote Republicans in a negative light on this issue, as you have, you simply show YOUR true colors. The fact is Bush has overseen some of the largest increases in military pay in a while; get your facts straight. You're simply another left wing Bush-basher who's hijacked yet another issue, and accusing those in opposition to you as being 'anti-military'. Now Sean if you go out the back gate at any airbase you'll see a mile of tattoo parlors, pawn shops, strip bars and used car lots, and this issue is no different. There are myriad resources for a young airman to get out of debt, the first is not to get into debt in the first place, however each base has a family support center where they will sit down and plan a budget with the individual and discuss options. In addition airmen living in the dorms pay nothing in rent or utilities (save phone and cable), eating on base they pay nothing for food. Free health care, free education benefits, tax breaks; I'm sure I'm missing something. I seriously question your sincerity on this matter.

For those asking: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2007paycharts/a/2007basicpay.htm

Get my facts straight, ok. Will do. But first, you assumed I was making that implication. I was not. I live in San Antonio, Texas, otherwise known as military city USA, and I have many friends and neighbors both in the military and in Iraq. I know what I am talking about. My best friend left half a leg in Fallujah, so spare me the pieties, please.

So, here are some facts for you: Democratic Senators Push for Military Pay Increase That Exceeds Bush's Proposal.
Ten Democratic senators are urging the Senate Budget Committee to provide military personnel with a 2007 pay raise higher than the 2.2 percent increase proposed by the president.

From Stars and Stripes:

Troops decry budget office's plan to trim military pay hikes in 2004
The director of the White House Office of Management and Budget, Mitchell E. Daniels Jr., recently asked the Defense Department to lower the 2004 pay raise from its expected 3.7 percent to 2 percent.

Those are just two articles of thousands.

While it is true that if they weren't making business said loan schemes wouldn't be in business. But it is also true that a fool and his money are soon parted. You obviously have a liberal spin on your opinion. So incase you couldn't read into my previous post, and I think I can also speak for the majority of my friends I work with, I'll spell it out: You and your liberal friends don't need to do us any favors. True to your nature you people think because you have a couple of neighbors who serve means you know all things military. When it comes to foreign policy, economics and prety much everything else (to include this subject) you and your DNC buddies are either wrong (and will continue to be wrong) or simply manipulating the facts to their benefit. So let's look at your "facts". First, the FY 2000 Defense Authorization Act made provisions to increase military pay .5% above the ECI (since 1982 pay had dropped to 13.5% below ECI, often used as a reference for military pay increases http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=1354&sequence=5 ). Although it was passed by Clinton it was written and approved by a Republican congress and was set to expire after 2006 (FYI the 2007 defense authorization act you're talking about takes effect AFTER 2006). The REASON Bush is backing off on pay hikes is because Congress (still Republican) over the last six years went beyond the 2000 DA Act and approved pay hikes totalling 32.5% ( http://www.moaa.org/lac/lac_issues_list/lac_issues_guard_reserve/lac_factsheets_ad_gr_1/index.htm ) As for you second article, of course troops are going to "decry" a cut to their pay raise. That's like polling welfare recipients on how they feel about a reduction in welfare benefits.

Are you an officer or enlisted?

You wrote: "When it comes to foreign policy, economics and prety much everything else (to include this subject) you and your DNC buddies are either wrong (and will continue to be wrong) or simply manipulating the facts to their benefit."

Just for the record, Foreign policy: I have a masters in International Relations. I speak Russian, English, Spanish, a bit of Chinese, read and write Latin, Ancient Greek and am learning Farsi. I have a BA in History as well. And have traveled in more than 35 countries, including Central Asia.

When it comes to economics: I worked in global finance--for a very large and profitable investment bank and asset management for ten years.

I imagine I know how market economies work.

Airman Allen, I didn't start this debate to be rude, and I try not to be rude or use ad hominem attacks on people while I debate. I would hope that you would reciprocate.

When I was in, the only guys I knew that used places like this either drank or gambled their money away. You can do much better at credit unions or regular banks if you haven't totally destroyed your credit. I'm all for helping out with caps for military people that use these places I suppose, but I have to believe that it is a small minority. In fact, I'm surprised these places are even legal to be allowed to charge anyone that much.

Now back when I was in, I remember a pay raise (that was probably typical) in that the lower grade enlisted men got a raise of a very small percentage, say 2.5 or 3 % of their already meager base rate.

But the higher you went up the scale to the officer ranks, the greater the percentage of increase. I do not remember the numbers, but say it was 7% for them. Multiply that out against their already much higher base pay and you can see who gets the real increase.

Now do this consecutively over the years, and you will see how the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Who says it means more? Being a lone liberal on a school board that was considering whether to pay a national guardsman who was also a teacher additional pay to cover the loss -- legally we were not required to do so -- when the vote went against the guardsman, I said "Well I guess you all can take those little yellow ribbon magnets off your cars now." The response was "We support our troops, we just don't support them financially." This was then accompanied by the standard retort I hear from conservatives about the guardsmen being called up repeatedly for extended tours of duty, " 'bout time they earned their pay." Yeah, those yellow ribbons mean a lot!

Hey guys, seems like you need a womans view or at least a POOR womans view. After all its the poor families that raise these kids that join up or so its been said. And the fact that southern states are mostly poor, and kids join to get an education, you can see that the next thing is what is Needed more than anything to help the poor not get caught, military or not. ALL these payday advances, car title places and Bigger rates on interest need to be BANNED by our govt. They just have legalized loan sharks, and there is no other way to look at it. I personally have been middle class, before my divorce, and later disability, and lived on a salary at walmart for five of the 11 years i had in there, the highest pay i got was $7,000 a year. I know that my poor friends can only get loans from the finance companies at high interest rates, and the rent to own places tor things they need, and they pay very little on principal a month. Its a NATIONAL problem, not just a military one. Want to combat poverty, this would be the very first thing that needs to be taken care of to start. Some people use these to pay DR BILLS, or HOSPITAL bills.....need i say more???? I could but you now know if you want a better america, you have to start right here with these things to ever make it happen. POOR people cant pull out anymore, its too hard. Jobs too few around small towns, and some just cant work to pull themselves out anymore due to giving their heatlh working for low wages at top business companies.

Now as far as people supporting the military, there are alot of care packages being sent out there to our troops, people stop my son in the airports and will buy him a drink at the bar, or just shake his hand and say thank you. They even tell me his mom thank you for your sacrifice. So i do believe that people care, the govt is another issue, they all been too rich too long, and too comfortable to know how to start caring. Make it where a poor person can actually run for office..and i will run!!! I need a raise in income and no one tells me what to think i listen to all sides and make up my own mind from what i see and hear!!!

There are multitudes of yellow ribbons attached to the cars around here. This is a red area of a red state, and until they all wore out in the wind, many cars had two or more flags flying from them also.

Some of these people are really genuinely patriotic, but far too many are nationalistic and grateful to the troops only because they are genuinely fearful, very thankful for the protection over there, rather than here in their own backyards.

Most will vote for the present administration to go the course, whatever it takes. It is very politically correct for these types to make their token comments of appreciation to their protectors, because they really have come to believe that that is the only reason they can sleep at night. And those of us that would protest war in general, are just considered code-pinkers, that should be run out of the country. All they need is a word of authorization from their exalted leaders and they will gladly don their brown-shirts and be rid of us troublemakers.

But their government leaders can do no wrong in comparison. These folks do not seem to mind their sacrifice for the rich, as they and theirs get poorer or killed.

What has this got to due with loan sharking ? I do not know, maybe nothing. Just expressing my views.

I know that as hard up as I was at times in my younger years, I knew better than to involve myself with those off base lending institutions. I did borrow on occasion from the private slush funds aboard ship when going into an overseas liberty port too far past payday. The interest rates were extremely high, but every bit worth it, all things considered. 20$ went a long way then, especially at the exchange rate of 360 Yen to the dollar... and no one seemed to hate us or shoot at us then.

We as a new military family, had fallen into the Payday Loan scam. Christmas and too little pay, made it seem needed. WE paid them off and forgot about the scams that are pulled.

We warn people about them, but we also see that they are in the same situation we were once in. Army emergency loans are a joke to inquire about. So, I can see why they will still be used.

I would agree that they need to go, some posts even went so far as to say that if you are caught using one of the places, you will get an article 15. I don't know if that rule still stands.

I thank you for your support and for bringing this to many peoples eyes.

"I wonder if anyone knows the pay for e-1 through e-6 excluding baq or dependent allowances ?"

2008 Base Pay Scale