For those on the PRO ENFORCEMENT, NO AMENSTY SIDE of the argument. You should be aware of the fact that Jackie L. has been going through all articles I've have started on this topic, and tried to redirect the traffic out of the threads so that she and others can kill our debate.
She's not been denied access to our groups, no one has kept her out of these threads, so this can only be seen as an attack...so, avoid ALL HER POSTS in these articles, disregard her LINKS to her articles in a blantant attempt to close our threads.
Just goes to show you what the PRO ILLEGAL SIDE will stoop to when they are losing.
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Comments: 62
JAckie L accused me of using these posts to GAIN POINTS...if I am gaining points with my articles, it is because people like you are so upset that you rapidly drive most of my articles on Immigration quickly into having 50, 75, 100 even 143 comments associated with them.
You don't like what I write, stay away from it...you do not see me pulling up your profile and running to comment on EVERYTHING you put on the board.
My hyperlink is completely relevant to this topic. Why not prove that you're not posting incendiary articles solely for points? Come debate it somewhere else- with the same people. If you're passionate about the topic and prepared to support your claims, you won't care where it's debated.
Come debate immigration issues- the whole enchilada in one article!
You are the one that has not posted ONE LINK to prove us wrong, have not posted ONE LINK to prove illegals ARE NOT CRIMINALS....could it be you CAN'T?
Jackie L is a shrew, just like Senobia. Jackie also likes to follow me around from thread to thread too, posing as an intellectual with rational thought.
I'm proud I can finally align myself with your cause.
Let me let you in on a secret. If you want your articles to be exclusive to your groups, post them there only. Otherwise, when we go to the articles page, not your page, we see them.
Your ignorance and lack of truth is what forces me to post on them. I'm versed in immigration issues. You don't seem to be. You need to educate yourself in that aspect before you try and educate someone else.
No matter how loudly or in which form you spew misinformation, it's still that - misinformation.
Debbie....pasting portions of articles that relate to the topic at hand within the body of what I write is not plaiarism, it is the norm in discussions. I can find literally THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of examples of people here having posting portions of things from other sites and sources....further, I have several mailserve lists that send me articles we can use in any way we wish.
dude, IGNORE her, and Senobia too......
You publish to everyone.
Get upset and tell others not to read if we don't like it.
Complain when Jackie takes the discussion elsewhere.
See anything wrong with that picture?
For future reference, ALIPAC, The Minutemen, KKK, Aryan Nation, or any other "white pride and power to the people" groups are not credible sources.
isn't Senobia the pedant that just last night was telling the world they better learn to SPELL if they want to be taken SERIOUSLY ???? *ROFL*
LMFAO
What the hell are you, the Gather Gestapo?
You're got too much on your plate, Porkman. You just keep up with the unlawful surveillance and leave the witty debates to those of us with a clue.
**skipping off the Jackie's article and telling on you**
"You're got too much on your plate" ????? *ROFL*
"skipping off the Jackie's article" ?????? *ROFL*
Pedants that can't even live up to their own standards *ROFL*
IT's orchestrated, and deliberate. Snobia and JackieB are all in a tiether because a little bird told me they were monopolizing Gather with a PRO-ILLEGAL MESSAGE, so I came on, left them alone, but started putting out my own ANTI AMNESTY MESSAGE, and they CANNOT STAND IT.
Oh well..............they hold their breath till their panties turn purple and I stir the froth as the numbers scroll by.
SNOBIA....ALIPAC a white pride group...guess again. For starters, it is very PRO-LEGAL IMMIGRATION, and has been from the start. They count people from every walk of life and ethinic origin there is in their membership, including Latino's who are HERE LEGALLY....your problem, is that your extended family are ILLEGALS, and it upsets you to have people telling you the truth...THEY ARE CRIMINALS.
SANDY....a clue here....YOU, JAckie 1 and 2, SNOBIA came to my discussion, are even here in this thread which is amusing. No one is keeping you from having your own discussions, and no one is FORCING you to be a part of mine. It's my article, my discussion, could delete the entire thing any time I want, so don't think any one is forcing you to be here.
COWARD, HYPOCRITE, LOSER ! ! ! ! ! ! !
This article is currently under editorial review.
Apparently some tender soul felt compelled to report you to the PTB, as Philip might say.
Weird.
but not these posts! ! ! ! !
And I'm pretty sure all the cowards ran out when they saw the "under review" silliness.
I just checked, can see my comments, and cannot find where this thread is under investigation...meanwhile, their posse rides on:
1. Putting up new articles written from their slant to replace mine on the board.
2. Coming into all my articles and putting links into their comments telling people to come to their space.
Where did you see where this thread was under investigation?
more or less the same I suppose.
When I have provided them links....IE, when they disagreed when one of the posters in one of my articles said Walmart was under investigation for hiring illegals, they discounted them as being from bias unreliable sources....it's a no win with them.
For starters, IF, and a really BIG if, someone plagiarizes anothers work, it is NOT A CRIMINAL ACT. It is a civil matter between TWO PRIVATE PARTIES. People are not subject to criminal prosecution, fines and/or imprisonment for plagiarizing anothers work. So you basic comparison is completely flawed.
It's like JAckie L who was pestering me in all my threads last night...seems little miss attorney wannabe is having trouble passing the bar examine, yet loves posturing as a know it all where matters of law come in. Just because you may have taken a few law courses, does not make you and expert, nor does it give you the right to make WRONG COMPARISONS. I would hope you are smart enough to know, that in civil matters, there is no right or wrong until there is a ruling on the issue in question before a trial judge or jury.
All illegals are GUILTY of CRMINAL wrong doing, that is a FACT, one that you CANNOT RUN FROM, cannot disprove. In fact, all illegals are guilty of no less than THREE CRIMES, in short they are multiple offenders. As much as you may not like it, AMNESTY IS GONE, it is not going to ever see Bush's signature...on the other side, funding for more enforcement, and funding for additional border patrol, and funds to build hundreds of miles of double fencing is going to pass....SO, which side is winning here Debbie....those who support CRIMINALS, or the law and order folks?
Nice thing about this proposed fence....it includes GROUND and MOTION sensors...in short, going to be a LOT HARDER to dig a tunnel under that fence, and those fences will push those illegals into having fewer and fewer crossing points, in more and more dangerous terrain. Further, it means the Border Patrol will be capable of focusing more on those entry points, while other agents can make cursory drives along the fence line as a road is being built between the two fences for that very purpose...some predator drones, and the task of securing our borders is UNDER WAY.
"Dispelling the Myths, Part II: Illegals Have a Deleterious Effect On Americans' Wages & Job Opportunities"
"Dispelling the Myths, Part I: Illegals Contribute Nothing to the Economy"
" Anchor (Babies) Aweigh: Misleading Theory Debunked"
Additionally, Jackie Beltran has written some excellent articles with a more moderate view of immigration issues- check those out too!
Mark F. had a good article on immigration a little while back… revive the discussion!
We don't all have to agree on specific points or solutions, but we can at least debate intelligently with others who have a genuine interest in the topic.
I just got an Idea for a new T.V. show! How 'bout "Illegally Desperate Housewives"?!
Hhahahahahahahah!!!
JackieL is still trying to move the conversation, and shut me out of the talks...she has me locked out of all the articles she is trying to steer people to.
If people want to run to threads that present the arguement in a fashion designed to EVOKE PITY and SYMPATHY for criminals, they should run to her articles. IF they instead believe that 20 Million ILLEGAL ALIENS and their FOUR MILLON ANCHOR BABIES is a serious problem, they should follow my articles....it's that simple.
The good news, is that the Pro-Illegal crowd has lost the momentum and they KNOW IT....our side is picking up steam, and there are all kinds of signs on the horizon that the door is about to be slammed shut on illegals.
You know, the pro-illegal people have their reasons for wanting amnesty, benefits, protection etc. for illegal immigrants. However, they seem to be looking at this issue from an emotional perspective, i.e. illegal relatives, or dealing with problems illegals face each day etc. And I even understand WHY they think the way they do. But, the REAL issue here is not the well being of a few foreigners, it is about the well being of this entire country.
People who have been here for generations. Unselfish people contributing, building, fighting and even dying to make this country what it is today. Do you think a person who steals across the border under darkness of night is coming to make contributions such as these? I think not.
They have their own selfish reasons. Some may say: But they're just poor people trying to make a better life for themselves. Well, what about the lives of the people here, who have struggled ALL their lives to survive and provide for THEIR families? What about the elderly people who have MORE than paid their dues in this country, only to end up living out their last days of life having to decide whether to buy medication or food? What about all the people who have worked all their lives and STILL cannot afford to buy a home? These are the people I put FIRST. These are the people that DESERVE the benefits this generous country may provide for it's CITIZENS! The pro-illegal side would have you believe that the poor illegals are starving and living in squalor. I personally have not yet seen ANY films or videos or pictures of illegals sneaking across the border who even remotely looked like they were starving! On the contrary! Most of them appeared as if they hadn't missed too many meals. Wearing the same type of clothes found here in the U.S., not appearing worn out or full of holes. There are MANY other countries in which people have to live under Worse conditions than the people of Mexico. I don't hear anyone speaking for them. We need to address the issues of our fellow Americans BEFORE considering any issues from trespassers from a foreign country.
You are hitting the nail on the head....illegals and those that support them would have us believe it is FINE for them to take the food off OUR TABLES to put on theirs, and when you say no, you are a bigot and a racist.
Americans are always the most generous when other nations need our help, we spend more in foreign aid than any other country in the world, pay more than our fair share to keep the United Nations up and running.
However, this is AMERICA, and Americans should ALWAYS take priority....these illegal supporters tell us our immigration system is broken and not generous...excuse me, but we let over ONE MILLION PEOPLE a year immigrate here LEGALLY. Mexico and other Latin American countries thinking they should have the right to ride rough shod over our nation, and change our laws to suit thier agenda is simply WRONG.
"Mexico and other Latin American countries thinking they should have the right to ride rough shod over our nation, and change our laws to suit thier agenda is simply WRONG."
Ain't gonna happen!
Army veteran as was my Father.
Civil law, or Criminal law, it doesn't really matter. You can't really have it both ways. The law is the law.
Porgie, I want to first congratulate you for having your article cleared from "editorial review."
But I have to tell you, you hurt no one but yourself with the hatred you are apparently so eager to spread so liberally around to anyone that dares to disagree with you.
If you are in fact, the christian you suggest yourself to be, I would take a moment to reflect upon the life of Jesus Christ, and try to imagine how he would judge your actions.
Though many of your convictions are righteous, the means you attempt to use, in seeking the end--- in fact is destructive of the ostensible goals you seek.
You will never, NEVER create converts to your cause with the hatred you spill into these pages.
In short, your cause may be just, but your tactics are those of a barbarian. You need to rethink your strategy, and find a new battle plan.
It is the only way you could ever possibly hope to "win" the battle.
Thank You for your interest fellow citizens.
There are times when being nice, being politically correct are NOT the way to proceed. There is no reasoning with those in the Pro-Illegal Camp, and very few people are middle of the road on this issue. You are either one or the other, in one camp or the other.
I spent a great deal of my late 30's and early 40's fighting the NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) on Low Level Radioactive Waste Issues...600,000 tons of illegally dumped radioactive wastes kind of get you UPSET over the issue. There was no middle ground in those battles, it was black or white. Right or Wrong. In the end, over 200 homes were remediated or torn down, and 70 million dollars was spent encapsulating the materials on site, and redirecting a major stream's bed to eliminate the problem, or at least mitigate it. I didn't make many friends in the fight with politicians or business leaders, but I won. In this fight, most of the players are all the same, and I am not in the fight to win friends.
Some don't like my tactics...I don't like theirs. I find it repugnant that groups such as La Raza would attempt to play the race card because a majority of those entering America illegally happen to be of Latino descent. Our laws do not target Hispanics, our laws target those entering America Illegally.
I don't like people saying those against Amnesty are racists, bigots and selfish. We allow over one million people a year to enter the United States legally....should we shut down the line under the guise that those entering illegally are more than filling our quota for new people?
Some don't like my anger and hatred...well, I don't like the fact that I had to let TWO legal Americans go from my landscaping company because I refuse to hire illegals, and because of that reality do not get some jobs now as companies hiring illegals are under cutting my bids. A person's home in most cases is their largest investment, and represents the sweat equity of their endeavors, the down payment on their retirement....no one from the other side seems to care about how much equity I and thousands of other Americans have lost because Illegals have moved into the neighborhood and changed a single family house into a tenement with 30 people living in it.
Tell me how you would feel if I came over to your house and took $50,000 of your life's savings and made it dissappear.
Anger and Hatred rarely exist in a vacuum, they require fuel to fan and feed the flames. I did not just wake up one day and say to myself, "GEE, think I'll start hating illegals today, and wage a war against them being in my country." I served in our Armed Forces, have relatives that gave their life in war...care to take a guess on how I felt when I watched illegal aliens take down the American flag flying over a United States Post Office and replace it with a Mexican Flag? Our fine young men and women in uniform do not risk their lives for that!
This for me is PERSONAL, my quality of life is being majorly impacted in a negative fashion by these illegals, my business is being impacted by them as well. They can spout their rhetoric about taking jobs we Americans are too proud to do, and it just is not true....work the numbers and that fact is plain as the noses on our faces. Americans still fill eighty percent of those jobs we are supposedly to proud to take. Before I moved to New York I lived in rural Ohio, farming country...America's family farms are dissappearing, being replaced by LARGE Corporate Farms employing illegal aliens. Don't tell me it does not happen, have seen it with my own eyes, watched as a 2500 pig industrial farm put local pig farmers out of business, watched as the farm brought in illegal aliens to run the operation.
Both the Congress and Senate held hearings this summer, but they did not let the people speak...they let specially invited guests with canned positions testify...it was a dog and pony show to push the ball down the road a bit so it could be dealt with later while another million or so more illegals violate our laws. Snobia comes to this board and BOASTS about the fact that most of her inlaws are here ILLEGALLY....give me a break, if our government were doing its job they would have instantly have pulled up her ISP number and opened up and investigation and began deportations. That kind of arrogance is despicable. You don't see any respect for us from the other side, they don't care if they push us out of a job, don't care if they depress our wages, don't care if they ruin our neighborhoods or push us out of them, it's ALL ABOUT THEM and their perceived sense of entitlement, their sense that WE OWE THEM. As I said, anger and hatred do not exist in a vacuum, and our governments refusal to enforce our laws, and do right by those here legally is feeing that fire.
It seems more like the government and big business are intent on ending your way of life. The illegal alien just happens to be the means to that end.
If I offer you a job selling drugs, and you take the job of selling drugs, we are both guilty of a crime. It is the same thing here.
I would love it if our government at ALL LEVELS actually enforced the laws on hiring illegals. But, that crimes cannot be used to excuse the crimes on the part of the illegals. Further, I feel there is a third criminal in all this, and that is Mexico itself....our government should be implementing sanctions against them, ending trade with them until they themselves stop encouraging this...they do not want to stop it, because this year if remittances remain at the pace they are on, will be the number one revenue generator in the entire nation.
Where are you articles fighting big business?
Why haven't you posted anything attacking THEM?
Of course, that's not as attainable in your mind. Better to attack a group of people than the government and corporations who ENABLE them.
Sheesh - cowardly....
You think my only battles are on this board where ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is concerned?
I am very involved for instance in the Boycott against Miller Brewing Company as one example of going after a BIG COMPANY.
I've been OFF THE BOARDS for most of the late afternoon here...why, because I was meeting with my attorney to map out my next step againt the owner of the property beside me.
I don't just go after the illegals, I attack every one, every company that is a part of the problem.
LMAO
There is no doubt in my mind that they will find another house and you will be overjoyed and the world will continue to spin.
Yes, you are right. Both parties are guilty of a crime. Unfortunately, one party is 11 million strong. Any law which they are all breaking is practically unenforceable. You said they are a tsunami. How do you stop a tsunami? How do you stop a group with the population of Ohio from doing something?
I understand your personal situation is difficult and I empathize, but every bad neighbor is not an illegal alien.
I think some of your arguments are compelling, but anecdotal evidence from you will not work as everyone knows what your intent is. Also, citing illegal aliens for actions which anyone is capable of makes it look like you have blinders on.
A rational argument, unbiased by personal prejudice, is always more effective.
He needed that.
That is what the Illegals would like us to think...reality is, we have faced this identical problem, with Mexico the primary abuser before. With far fewer border patrol, far fewer ICE (then INS) Dwight D Eisenhower implemented Operation Wetback. Strong work place enforcement, coupled with raids was HIGHLY EFFECTIVE, and in fact so effective that a large portion of illegals self deported themselves out of fear, or because they could not find work.
Go back and read articles from that time in our history, and you will find illegals and those who supported them made the same claims.
Were there 11 million illegal aliens in the 1950's? No, the INS says it deported as many as 1.3 million, though most left before they could be deported.
By the way, my reading says Operation Wetback was abandoned in 1954 due to public outcry. Did they really think they had nabbed all the illegals in less than a year? Or were they under pressure to stop the racial profiling, and raids on Mexican-American neighborhoods in the Southwest?
A historical review of your various claims would see them used against the Jews, women, African Americans, Irish, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, Native Americans, and gays at different points in human history in an effort to muddy the issue with fear and emotional pleas.
Like it or not, operation wetback was the most success deportion effort in American History, and the similiarities between then and now are startling....eighty percent of those entering America are Mexican, and because we are targeting the biggest PART OF THE PROBLEM, people want to call out RACIST, BIGOT, and claim racial profiling.
There are differing views on why Operation Wetback was stopped. You take the position it was the public outcry, others point to how successful it was, coupled with and economic upturn in the economy. Neither of us will ever know. However, if you look at this brief historical review, you could be reading about our situation today....as to the numbers. Back then, we had far fewer ICE agents, and the population was half of what it is today. What is clear, is a second Operation Wetback today would see many millions of illegal aliens leaving America.
Burgeoning numbers of illegal immigrants prompted President Dwight D. Eisenhower to appoint his longtime friend General Joseph Swing as INS Commissioner. According to Attorney General Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration immediately when he took office. In a letter to Sen. William Fulbright, Eisenhower quoted a report in The New York Times that said: "The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government."
Eisenhower became increasingly concerned that profits from illegal labor led to corruption. An on-and-off guest-worker program for Mexicans was operating at the time, farmers and ranchers in the Southwest were becoming dependent on an additional low-cost labor.
A second sweep may sound like a good idea on the surface, but I think it has a few problems.
1. It is estimated 12-20 million immigrants live in the United States, and they are not just migrant workers in the southwest. Operation Wetback was designed to address a very specific problem. It was designed to detain and deport migrant agricultural workers that were "allowed" in when the US opened its borders to snub Mexico. Today is a far different landscape, and there are two successive generations of immigrants (legal and illegal) that are more deeply embedded in America. They live all over the United States working in a variety of jobs.
2. The government couldn't get 200,000 people out of New Orleans, and nobody there wanted to stay. How is the government going to locate and deport as much as 100 times that number, especially when the illegal aliens don't want to leave?
3. The New York Times article quoted by Eisenhower uses the rate of one million a year for illegal immigrant growth. If one uses 500,000/year as a conservative estimate, that would put today's population at over 25,000,000. There is no way that population could be moved without extreme social upheaval. It seems likely that violence and death are almost a given with the victims not limited to the illegal aliens. And I am not OK with illegal aliens dying either, but since we have made distinctions in every other case it seemed appropriate here.
When you use anecdotal evidence to portray a group of people as having some aberrant behavior, and with the motive of rallying like-minded people to your cause, you ARE a bigot. I'm sorry if you don't like the label, but some of your rhetoric is baseless, and needs to be identified as such.