A week ago I posted on an opinion column which put forth the idea that we should "declare victory" in the war on terror. Yesterday political science professor John Mueller posted similar thoughts on the Cato Institute blog Unbound.
Here's an excerpt from his conclusion:
The United States is unlikely to be toppled by dramatic acts of terrorist destruction, even extreme ones. As it happens, officials estimated for a while last year that Hurricane Katrina had inflicted 10,000 deaths–the tolerance level set by General Myers. Although this, of course, was not a terrorist act, there were no indications whatever that, while catastrophic for the hurricane victims themselves, the way of life of the rest of the nation would be notably done away with by such a disaster. It is also easy to imagine scenarios in which 10,000 would have been killed on September 11–if the planes had hit the World Trade Center later in the day when more people were at work for example–and indeed, early estimates at the time were much higher than 3000. Any death is tragic, but it is hardly likely that a substantially higher loss on 9/11 would have necessarily have triggered societal suicide.We already absorb a great deal of tragedy and unpleasantness and still manage to survive. We live with a considerable quantity of crime, and the United States regularly loses 40,000 lives each year in automobile accidents. Moreover, countries have endured massive, sudden catastrophes without collapsing. In 1990 and then again in 2003, Iran suffered earthquakes that nearly instantly killed some 35,000 in each case. The tsunami that hit Indonesia and elsewhere in 2004 killed several times that many. But the countries have clearly survived these disasters: they constitute major tragedies, of course, but they hardly proved to be "existential" ones.
Thus the country can readily absorb considerable damage if necessary, and it has outlasted far more potent threats in the past. To suggest otherwise is to express contempt for America's capacity to deal with adversity.
I think it's telling that the folks making this argument minimize the impact of terrorism. In the column I posted about previously the argument put forth stated that because we haven't had another terrorist attack like 9/11 since 9/11 the threat of terrorism is being overstated. In order to make this argument the authors had to suggest that the terror attacks in London, Madrid, Bali, Beslan, etc. were all of a smaller scope than 9/11 and thus somehow acceptable. The authors also had to ignore that one of the reasons why we haven't had another 9/11 because we are doing the very things they oppose doing (read: NSA call monitoring, etc.) for the sake of civil liberties absolutism. They've forgotten, apparently, that the war on terror they oppose fighting has thwarted attacks on the Brooklyn Bridge, the Holland Tunnel in New York and most recently the plot to blow up about a dozen British planes with liquid explosives.
Mueller's argument above, however, takes a bit of a different angle. He seems to think that we should deal with terrorism by simply absorbing the damage and destruction they mete out and then move on with our lives. After all, we deal with things like natural disasters and automobile accidents every year, right? If we can tolerate the deaths from those things we can tolerate death from terrorism, right?
Wrong.
First, let me say that terrorism is not equivalent to a hurricane or an earthquake. Aside from emergency preparations and notification systems there's not a lot we can do about natural disasters. We can't stop hurricanes. We can't ease the rumblings of an earthquake. When it comes to terrorism, though, there are things we can do to stop it. Like gather intelligence, disrupt financing and attack the roots of terrorism in the middle east. We know these things stop terrorism as evidenced by the thwarted plots I described above.
So let me put it to you this way: If we can do things to stop terrorism and save lives, don't we have a duty to do so? Isn't it a bit absurd to write terror attacks off as natural disasters we can't do anything about?
As for comparing terror attacks to automobile crashes, let me say that the risk of death in a car crash is a something most Americans accept by choice in exchange for the convenience of the transportation their vehicles provide. If you asked most Americans bluntly I don't think the of possibility dying in a terror attack is a risk they're willing to take without first being assured that we are doing things to lower that risk significantly.
I understand where Mr. Mueller and others like him are coming from when they make these arguments. They're afraid of the government getting too much power. They're afraid that the government is using the fear of terrorism to get the American people to grant them that power. Obviously, a too-powerful government is something we should all be wary of...but while Mueller's fears make sense I'm just not sure they're justified in post-9/11 America.
Consider this from Orin Kerr:
During the week following the September 11 attacks, most major newspapers ran stories on the very plausible prospect that 9/11 could lead to a radical overhaul of civil liberties in the United States. The articles included sober discussions by law professors of whether we would have internment camps for Muslims, citing the camps for Japanese during World War II, or whether there would be a suspension of habeas corpus, citing the precedent of the Civil War. Fortunately for all of us, this didn't happen. While there were some aggressive law enforcement steps taken, particularly with regard to immigration offenses, for the most part the changes in existing statutory and constitutional law have been minor. . . .Where does that leave us? To me it suggests that the impact of 9/11 on the law is still largely an open question, but that as a general matter the impact has been notably less significant than most of us would have predicted on the afternoon of 9/11. Maybe this will change in the future: Senator Specter's NSA bill is still pending, and a few Supreme Court vacancies might alter the picture. But on the five-year anniversary of 9/11, I'm struck more by how little the law has changed than by how much.
I think that's about right.
Mueller and others claim that people are getting to hysterical about the threat from terrorism and that we are going overboard in fighting it. I disagree, and would say in reply that Mueller et. al. are getting a bit too hysterical about the efforts we are making to fight terrorism. Especially when they stoop to suggesting that terrorism be treated like a natural disaster we can do nothing about.
(via The Agitator)


Comments: 17
You should read that entire CATO institute piece, if you haven't already. It's a rather brilliant article, especially considering that it was published by a rightwing think tank.
"I think it's telling that the folks making this argument minimize the impact of terrorism."
No, speaking rationally and realistically about terrorism is not "minimizing it." It just happens that the GOP has been "MAXIMIZING" the effects of terrorism for the past 5 years, to many of us have gotten used to this type of extremist, fearmongering polito-speak, and have forgotten how to speak rationally and realistically about it.
"The authors also had to ignore that one of the reasons why we haven't had another 9/11 because we are doing the very things they oppose doing (read: NSA call monitoring, etc.)"
For the record, FISA has been on the books since 1978. What Bush is doing is violating FISA law and the constitution, and there is absolutely not ONE SHRED of evidence that this illegal behavior has made us one iota safer. None. In fact, every expert and non-expert who speaks of terrorist attacks in the US says that it's not a matter of "if," but "when." So much for your illegal domestic spying program.
"that the war on terror they oppose fighting has thwarted attacks on the Brooklyn Bridge, the Holland Tunnel in New York and most recently the plot to blow up about a dozen British planes with liquid explosives"
You might wish to make note of the fact that not ONE of these supposed threats has been deemed credible or viable to date, and neither was the infamous "plan" from the "terrible seven" arrested in FL, who were supposedly planning to take down the Sears Tower. These are, at this point, nothing more than more false propoganda tools used by a corrupt, failed, diseased administration, in order to continue to provide cover for their criminal activities.
Mueller's argument above, however, takes a bit of a different angle. He seems to think that we should deal with terrorism by simply absorbing the damage and destruction they mete out and then move on with our lives."
No, what we should REALLY do is let a corrupt administration destroy the very freedoms, rights, and protections that have made this nation great, and sit back and enjoy the view while he continues to destroy our national treasury and our moral authority. Let's just all help the president destroy the country, by cheering and applauding each colossal failure, and pretending that constitutional rights aren't worth protecting. Might as well give Osama what he wants...a nation of sniveling cowards, cheerfully handing over their rights and freedoms without question.
"First, let me say that terrorism is not equivalent to a hurricane or an earthquake."
No doubt. It would be impossible for a corrupt administration to manipulate the public with constant fearmongering over potential hurricanes and earthquakes, and it would be VERY difficult to launch a military war against them, even though it's at least as ludicrous to launch one against a tactic, and he somehow managed that.
"If we can do things to stop terrorism and save lives, don't we have a duty to do so?"
Yes, which is why it's inexplicable that, to date, this president has yet to incorporate a single recommendation of the 9/11 commission, including sealing our ports and borders. Remarkable failure.
"If you asked most Americans bluntly I don't think the of possibility dying in a terror attack is a risk they're willing to take without first being assured that we are doing things to lower that risk significantly."
There's NOTHING that this government, and especially this failed president, could ever do to absolutely guarantee that nobody will ever die in this country as a result of terrorist attacks. You either learn to accept the risk and carry on with your life, or you continue to live as a sniveling, whining little coward, who can't wait to hand over yet more freedoms and rights, in exchange for comforting, though meaningless words from der fuhrer.
"Obviously, a too-powerful government is something we should all be wary of...but while Mueller's fears make sense I'm just not sure they're justified in post-9/11 America."
Bullshit. They're more valid now than EVER. Just consider the fact that there are actually cowering fools who're so frightened that a meteor will strike them on the head (actually, more probable than a terror attack), that they can't wait to support the next illegal violation of the constitution that is presented as their blankie of security.
The rightwing Mueller could not be more accurate. Not only is it highly irrational for anyone to be so overly wrought with fear that they're willing to surrender their constitutional rights and freedoms without question and assume that anyone who doesn't go along with the idiocy is a terrorist themselves, but it is entirely unAmerican as well.
This was never a nation of sniveling cowards, until George Bush came along and made us into just that. Screw him and screw anyone else who cowers underneath their blankies at night, terrified to the point of pissing themselves over the possibility of waking up to see Osama staring down at him from the edge of his bed.
John Edwards was correct in saying that this has become two nations, but he wasn't quite accurate in the separation. We have become one nation of sniveling, whiny little cowards, and another nation of fiercely patriotic Americans. I'm damned proud to say that I am the latter. It appears that Rob is damned proud to be the former.
This CATO article is a must-read for all. It really puts into perspective the ridiculous use of fearmongering to justify the stripping away of national treasury and constitutional rights. I'm going to publish an article linking to the PDF file, so that all can have a chance to read it in its entirety.
We will face many trying times in this war, but it is a war against people, not some force of nature. After decades of these attacks, a US President has finally come up with a forward-thinking policy toward the mideast, and everyone hates him for it, and second guesses him.
Screw them. We're in it now, so let's do the right thing, by following through, although we should be playing a minor support role by the end of Bush's term.
Prof. Mueller didn't post his thoughts yesterday; in reality, he's been discussing his thesis (part of an upcoming book) for several months. In fact Foreign Affairs Magazine published a Mueller article at the beginning of last month. For Rob Port to suggest he arrived at an answer before Mueller is, well, Rob Port's usual lack of honesty.
The fact is Mueller is largely right. Rob Port dishonestly charecterizes Mueller's thesis as one of sitting back and taking whatever the terrorists throw at us. Mueller doesn't say that at all.
Instead, Mueller points out a few facts. First, the average American's chances of dying in a terrorist attack are less than the chances of dying from food poisoning.
Second, as many historians have pointed out, 9/11 doesn't rank up yhere with more cataclysmic events in US history.
Last, Rob Port tries to bring up 'incidents' such as the nutjob who was going to attack the Brooklyn Bridge with a blowtorch. He may as well have used a Q-Tip for all the good it would do him. The Holland Tunnel incident is even funnier:
NY Times
Clark Kent must not understand that the dripping vitriol in his rantings really makes him sound insane. Oh well.
Sorry to offend, sweetie pie. I'll be more mindful of your tender emotions next time.
Clark Kent has forgotten that the US suffered more than a decade of terrorist attacks and answered them either not at all or with "proportional response." That only served to motivate more attacks, proving exactly what would happen if we went back to those appeasement policies.
"What Bush is doing is violating FISA law and the constitution, and there is absolutely not ONE SHRED of evidence that this illegal behavior has made us one iota safer." Kent's blindfold is pretty tight. He doesn't seem to understand that the citizens that were being spied on were not making everyday telephone calls -- they were telephoning suspected terrorist organizations. Also, he obviously has not been in a situation where terrorist action was foiled in the US -- I was. These things are not announced to the press because our media is much too eager to give all the information they can about our defenses to the enemy. "Loose lips sink ships" and no lips are looser in the US than those of the American media.
"It would be impossible for a corrupt administration to manipulate the public with constant fearmongering over potential hurricanes and earthquakes, and it would be VERY difficult to launch a military war against them, even though it's at least as ludicrous to launch one against a tactic, and he somehow managed that." This is the irresponsible ranting of an uniformed, irrational and hysterical mind. He probably believes the moon landing actually took place in a Hollywood studio, as well!
During World War II we had to give up a few freedoms in order to get the job done -- we got them back when the war was over. I suppose Kent would feel the reporting of that war was creating mindless hysteria, too. We know Kent's ilk -- they were named Chamberlain and Chaplin and Lindbergh in the second world war. Unfortunately, Jake, his kind of insanity can destroy us if enough people listen to him. Like they did in the 1970s.
At that time I would have bet money that no traitor who met with the enemy during wartime would ever serve in the highest halls of government -- but today we have John Kerry in the Senate and gearing up for his second run at the Presidency.
These are dangerous times for our country.
Great piece, Rob.
Don't be a fool. This is not WWII. We fought a finely defined enemy during WWII, and we knew that the outcome would either be victory or defeat. We did not sacrifice freedoms and liberties indefinitely, to fight a nebulous, undefinable enemy with a tactic that has been proven to be an utter failure.
"You just sound like a raving lunatic."
Thanks, honey. Love you too!
" Rob, no sane person would disagree that the war on terror needs to be fought."
You're right. So tell me, why have we invaded and occupied Iraq, and why have we left our ports and borders wide open, and not even bothered to capture our #1 enemy or the anthrax killer? Explain to me how we're "fighting a war on terror" by doing nothing to actually fight terror.
"Let us keep on fighting the good fight, by all means, just be a little more selective.Let us keep on fighting the good fight, by all means, just be a little more selective."
Bingo. There's absolutely NO reason for us to hand over the very freedoms that we're supposedly fighting to defend. That's just stupid.
Ought implies can.
That is to say you can only have a duty to do things that can be done. It is nonsense to say anyone has a duty to to do anything that cannot be done.
In this case I would reverse the principle:
Can implies ought.
In other words, of course we have a duty to do what we can to prevent terrrorist attacks. It is certainly true that we may never end terrorist attacks. That is no reason not to do all that we can.
Finally, I would like to respond to this portion of Clark's comment:
"No, what we should REALLY do is let a corrupt administration destroy the very freedoms, rights, and protections that have made this nation great, and sit back and enjoy the view while he continues to destroy our national treasury and our moral authority. Let's just all help the president destroy the country, by cheering and applauding each colossal failure, and pretending that constitutional rights aren't worth protecting. Might as well give Osama what he wants...a nation of sniveling cowards, cheerfully handing over their rights and freedoms without question."
Cleary, no thoughtful citizen believes our civil rights should be forfeited, or that they are not worth protecting.
We disagree as to whether our civil liberties are being violated. If anyone's rights have been violated, I suggest they hire a good attorney and file suit. Surely the ACLU will gladly fund the litigation, provided there is credible evidence to prove it. Otherwise, it all sounds like partisan propaganda that some find useful during an election year.
The Supreme Court has already ruled that the government lacks the authority to try detainees in military tribunals. Then suggested the administration submit to congress a proposal for new legislation granting such authority. This is a great example of the constituional limits on the authority of the executive branch working. The balance of power remains in tact. Our President is not a dictator. Our democracy is not threatened despite all the paranoid hyperbole. The fear that this government is in the process of destroying our civil liberties is nonsense. We could have a rational debate on the question of whether there has been some erosion of civil liberties. And whether there is justification and authority to adjust the limits of our liberties. This is nothing new. Civil liberties have never been aboslute, any more than the President's power. The best proof of this fact is that our right to free speech has never given anyone the right to stand in a crowded theater and yell fire. If we find ourselves at a place in history that requires us to rethink the delicate balance between civil liberties and national security, then let's do that work and hold all our leaders accountable to preserve our liberty and our lives.
This is the problem you choose not to see, the ever growing gap between the classes,.,.. Bush not taking time out to visit a natrual disaster until 3 days later, but he can fly in the middle of the night to sign legislation for Terri Shivo. This is THE MOST political amdinistration in years! Everything they do is for political gain and monitary gain. You must be of privilage and a family who makes a good living. Because if you were middle to lower class, you'd be feeling the pinch of this Administrations economic policies for over two years now. The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer... just like during Regans administration... However, Regan was a GREAT foriegn policy President, and so was Bush Senior and Clinton and Carter. Bush is the WORST president when it come to foreign policy... and this is from conservatives in think tanks. He is abrasive and doesn't even have average table manners... is this the face that we Americans want as a leader who represents us? I travel for my job to areas like China and South America... we are looked at like idiots when they see how Bush's base reacts to his fear tactics. There is no Liberal Media Bias and it's always been a propaganda tool from the Right. All I see on TV and hear on Radio is 75% right wing.
Well... I know the ones who believe Bush will "Drink the Cool-Aid" and there is no talking them out of it... I just hope most of you who follow our leader blindly try a little Chris Matthews or Tim Rusert... Get off of your FOX fix and get news from other sources to give you an equal perspective. Don't forget that we are ALL Americans and for terrorists to win, all we need to do is stay polarized and they have proved to us that they have the stronger mentality in standing together.
I'm not afraid of a dictator Bush, I have faith in our system and people to work as planned. I don't think everything is perfect, there is work to be done, but I'm not fatalistic about how things are going.
I am concerned about attacks on America, it's people, and it's interests, but afraid? No. There is a threat to us by terrorism, it's real enough, but I don't think the fear of it is the main driver in peoples lives here. I don't think it ever will be.
I do find it interesting that there is a giant concern about freedom of the press, freedom of information, and the like. However, let a cartoon be printed and the fundamentalist Muslims freak out and riot and kill, but it is our problem. Don't print stuff like that, oh no, they may not like us for it. Worry about that control of our media, what we can say, western satire allowed, if you want to worry about something.
If either party thinks that touting fear of terrorism, or fear of Bush government is going to get my vote, they are both making a big mistake.
Thanks.
If we have to resort to enraged ranting and personal attacks to express our views, it indicates the weakness of our position. Valid positions on important issues can easily be stated and defended in a civil tone.
Please consider this clear example of the phenomenon I am describing from the comment above by David N:
" You must be of privilage and a family who makes a good living. Because if you were middle to lower class, you'd be feeling the pinch of this Administrations economic policies for over two years now."
First, even if I were all the things David just stated, this does not answer my argument. Second, He is entirely incorrect in his conclusion that I am a wealthy person from a privileged family. I am not. My maternal and paternal grand parents were both family farmers who owned no land. Instead they were sharecroppers who raised 5 kids each during they depression farming other peoples land for a meager existence. My father fought in World War II, then married my mom and used his veterans loan benefits to borrow the money to buy 160 acres to farm. The payments were about $460 per year on that farm, and there were some tough years when he could not pay the full amount, and had to roll over and refinance the unpaid portion. Today my parents live on a fixed income from social security, and their 3 children all work very hard full time, as we have all our lives, to make ends meet.
Enough of my personal biography. The point is, your upset emotions clouded your judgement and you jumped to a blatantly false conclusion based on your bias and presuppositions with no basis in fact. I suggest you try to relax, and think more critically before forming conclusions.
Finally, if you do some research and read the other articles and comments I have posted at gather, which I am not going to repeat here out of consideration for others who have already taken time to read them, you will discover that the following characterization of my views is totally false:
"Why do people like Bill R., Jake S. , and other Neo-Con Republican followers always turn into parrots and parrot the talking points of the Republican party??? Do you have ideas of your own?"
My criticisms of President Bush's policies with which I disagree are a matter of public record at this sight. Just one more fact David N. failed to uncover and consider before forming another false conclusion. Don't you agree that we can do better?
I thank all of you who try to gather facts and consider them fairly and carefully before forming your views. Then take care to express them in a civil tone. Believe me when I say I have erased several uncivil remarks from this comment before posting, based on my desire to be a more responsible and effective participant in this dialogue.