Today, I am a Christian who is on a continual process of learning. And the more I learn, it seems the less that I know. But here are a few things that I have decided as I have been on this journey.
Nobody has all of the answers. No religion. No person. No political group. We are all human beings with something to share and something to learn. And believing we have it all figured out is a sure sign that we don't.
God loves us all, no matter what. He loves us when we soar, and He loves us when we fall on our faces. He loves us when we obey Him, and He loves us when we don't. He loves us when we love Him. And He loves us when we love everything else more than Him.
God is not narrow-minded. God's mind is as vast and as open as the universe He created. So in our attempts to place God in a box, I would have to imagine He is heartily laughing at our vain attempts.
God loves gays and pro-choice activists just as much as He loves those who seek to condemn gays and pro-choice activists. Because, guess what? A person can be a gay Christian and a person can be a pro-choice Christian activist. Just as a person can be a judgmental Christian. Christians are not perfect. Nobody is perfect.
And just as God loves Christians, he also loves Muslims and Buddists and Athiests and Agnostics. God's love is totally unconditional, so it is not affected by how much a person believes in Him or loves Him.
To all Christians
Ease up. Ease up on each other and ease up on those who do not believe as you do. You are not in charge of anything. God is.
It is not your job to point fingers and walk as if you are so much better than those who believe differently than you do. It IS your job to LOVE...period.
How can you condemn people and expect those same people to embrace you and your beliefs? Why would they want to?
Don't pretend that you are a "perfect" Christian, because there is no such thing. You are a Christian for one reason only...because of the grace of God. The Ten Commandments were given to us as a guide and to show us how in need we are of God, because we cannot obey all of the commandments. It says in the Bible that if we break one, we have broken them all. So while you are busy condemning someone for being gay, you are, in fact condemning yourself as well.
You are, indeed, a sinner. But does being a Christian mean we have a "ticket to sin"? Absolutely not, and any Christian who sins with that thought in His mind needs to rethink His relationship with God. We are to strive daily for a closer walk with God by praying, thanking Him, and asking Him for help. The closer we draw near to Him, the more the desires of our hearts will be in keeping with what He wants.
It really comes down to treating others as you would like to be treated. Very simple.
To all Non-Christians
Ease up. Ease up on what you believe about Christianity, and realize that we are just as broken...oftentimes more so than those who do not profess a belief in God.
Please don't judge all of us on the basis of the ones who are still fumbling around in the dark, trying to find out what it is that God wants them to do and be. The truth is, we are all fumbling or have fumbled at some point. But that's how we learn.
Please know that there are kind, loving, open-minded Christians who do not seek to judge you.
Also, know that, inasmuch as we are not perfect, we very often do some very stupid things. As a matter of fact, very often its hard to tell who is a Christian by the way we conduct ourselves. You may find us in bars, or watching porn, or having affairs, or doing drugs. You may find us in abusive situations or mentally ill. But this does not mean we are not Christian, for Christianity does not mean we are perfect.
It means we are struggling, but have found Someone to help us get back up. It means we are heartbroken, but we have found Someone to dry our tears. It means that we are angry, but have found Someone to gentle our spirits. It means that we are sinning, but have found Someone who forgives us.
We are no better than you. We are no less than you. We are all walking the same road of life to reach our final destination. Some of us may have few more bumps in the road than others. Some of us may have a few more detours. Some of us may have more money and more possessions. But in the end, we are all the same. Death sees to it.
In Conclusion
And here is the biggest difference between Christians and non-Christians. This is where the road forks, depending on what a person believes. Christians believe death is only a transition into a new and better life, made possible by the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
Let me state that this it fully what I believe. But let me also state that I have questions as well, for I am still searching and wanting to learn. I know that God is a God of great mercy, and in a way it almost seems like I am placing Him in a box by limiting Heaven to this strict interpretation.
I don't know. I really don't. All I can do is continue to live to the best of my ability and continue searching with an open mind. Hopefully the reader will do the same, no matter what your belief is presently.
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Comments: 67
And these people truly care not what label anyone may choose for them.
Also, the limits placed upon Christians mean that we don't walk the same road in life as the non-Christian. That is a fundamental principal of Christianity.
To 'belong' to a particular faith usually means to accept the precepts of that faith. Most often that then conflicts with other faiths with differing concepts.
God is available to each and all via Spirit that requires no 'name', it is best found within yourself (best when sought there) and will be simply your higher Self as your Soul aspect directly connected to God.
True Spirituality has nothing to do with 'judgements' as they usually involve condemnation and/or sentencing.
Discernment is absolutely necessary though for any differentiation as to preferred choice of directions. Perfection is then where your natural truth is as it is centered upon your Spirit which is at the very center of all truth ... found there as unconditional love.
That is as close as anyone will get to God in this lifetime, and the more that come to that realization, the closer we will be to a heaven here on earth. More at BOOK
(+=-)=:-) Trinity
(+/-)=:-( Duality
No one is perfect,we all learn from each other,from the negs,and the positives,I say start with yourself first,then work your way out.
Your sin is no greater than mine.( a sin is a sin). But, no matter what, He will forgive you .
There are two things my mother told us grwoing up.
#1: He who is with out sin, cast the first stone.
#2 : People who live in glass houses ought not throw stones.
Peace and blessings be with you all
I have been a Christian for over 33 years now and I have been ordained since 1984. And I can see that you have given a lot of thought to what you have said: But I hate to tell you this: The god that you believe in, and describe, is not the God that the Bible describes!
The God of the Bible shows favoritism to those who serve Him and obey His commands. And He curses those who disobey Him. The God of the Bible requires all those who wish to have fellowship with Him to forsake all those things that He has said are wrong! That means that if a homosexual wants to be a Christian: he must first confess that homosexuality is wrong. Then he must ask God to forgive him based upon the blood that Jesus shed on the cross, surrender the rest of his life to serving God; and invite Jesus to come into His heart. He then must forsake homosexuality forever! If he should revert back into his sin sometime down the road: and refuses to repent, he will lose his salvation over it! For the God of the Bible will not tolerate this type of behavior from His creation!
The God of the Bible has made the way to heaven very narrow and straight! Jesus said in:
Matt 7:13-14
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. NKJV
Luke 13:23-28
23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, 24 Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,' 26 then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' 27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' NKJV
Matt 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' NKJV
John 14:5-6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. NKJV
It doesn't get any narrower than that!
Have a good day.
For what have I to do with judging those also who are outsides? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore put away from yourself the evil person." - 1 Cor. 5:12,13.
Paul was very wise in this matter. He tells us not to judge those who are not Christians because it is God who deals with them. If we are to judge, judge your brother or sister who is in Christ; those who you are in fellowship with. If your brother is leading to a destructive path then confront him, don't let him fall. Everyone always puts a negative tone towards the word "judgement." Sometimes you need to judge your brother to point out the misleadings he may be doing so that maybe he will turn himself around. And the Bible ok's that.
I read somewhere someone posted that some people feel to guilty too enter a church. I believe that is more of the guilt an individual is bearing than from Christians making them feel that way. They feel that they must be good enough to enter a church because they feel they must be good enough to be in God's presense but that guilt is a barrier. And in truth, God does require that perfectness. But, that is unattainable, so it is the reason for why we need to accept what Christ did for us. The folks in the Old Testament were always at a distance with God. You never heard the term "God's Children" in the OT, not until after Jesus came and did what he did. It is Christ who makes us perfected and acceptalbe in God's eyes. And because of Him we can boldly come to God and say, "Abba" (Father).
I see you struggling with the conflicts of faith and intelligence, and I admire your quest to reconcile the two. I personally cannot do this, but you might.
You are an inspiration to Christians and non-Christians alike because you do not want to judge. That is a wonderful thing.
Excellent article.
God gave us the ten commandments as the rule for our lives. Do any of us obey them perfectly? No. No matter how much we strive, none of us can ever work our way into Heaven. Salvation is a gift....free and clear. And when the Lord comes into a person's heart, he works on that heart from the inside out. A person's relationship with God is a very personal thing. God knows our weaknesses. He knows everything about the deepest recesses of our hearts. And in that knowing, He is infinitely merciful according to that knowledge.
You stated that "if a homosexual wants to be a Christian, he must first confess that homosexuality is wrong." My question to you is WHY would he want to be a Christian when he is judged, laughed at, made fun of, called names by Christians? What about the Christian lifestyle would he find appealing? Does a person not gravitate to the place where they feel the most love and acceptance?
Nancy...thanks for the kind comments. I knew this article might prove to be controversial. Want to hear something funny? The other Christian groups I submitted this to rejected both this article anad the other one I wrote on the "retelling of the adulterous women". I found it a bit amusing...because their rejection only seems to prove my point.
For a very long time I fornicated, gambled and cursed among other things, I am a sinner, because none are perfect, no not one. When I sought the Lord I was still doing all of the above I'd tried to stop but failed repeatedly.
I didn't change my life I couldn't and I tried and tried nothing happened until God, and his mercy and grace changed me. Am I perfect, noooooooo, do I strive to do better, yesssss. It is a daily fight.
Sex outside of marriage is a sin, for along time I refused to accept that God really expected us to live without sex until marriage, now I know I was a fool.
As per the example above: A homosexual giving his life to God doesn't mean he/she is no longer a homosexual, what it means is that he/she is no longer a practicing homosexual as I am no longer a practicing fornicator, but am I still a sinner, you bet (oops). If we don't confess our sins we will never recieve forgiveness. The first and most important thing to being saved is confession.
I agree that we must confess our sins to receive forgiveness....and I am so glad that you have been able to do that in regard to the weakness that you described.
Now, I don't know why we are here tyring to compromise for homosexuality. What is wrong is wrong, but that is something between and individual and God would have to work out.
Oh, here's a verse that comforts me whenever someone comes a long and trys to blast the bible:
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Cor. 2:14
Also, if everything is good and anything goes...why be a Christian anyway...GOD loves and is going to save everybody of every faith and even that those that don't even believe in him. According to your gospel Christ surely died in vain...since everybody is saved anyway. What fools we Christians are for having believed in Christ for all these centuries...thanks for enlightening us. Everybody gets in. You want to know what a Christians duty is...here:
"All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world"
(Mt. 28:18-20)
I am not condoning homosexuality. I am saying that we can love the homosexual and treat him as a child of God....despite the way he lives his life and whether we agree or disagree with it. And this goes for anyone who is living in a lifestyle deemed "sinful".
I agree with Eric that God's love does notmake him tolerant of everything any more than a lovingparent is tolerant of his or her child's misbehavior. You can't throw mashed potatoes at the wall just because you don't want to eat them. Loving parents will see to it that misdeeds have consequences.
God won't let us get away with some things, either. Precisey because He loves us and know that some things are not good for us.
Being a Christian does not mean being judgmental. I am not a Christian because I am good. Jesus himself said that he had not come for those who were already in good shape but to save those who were broken. Rather, I am a Christian because I know the depths to which I can fall, the darkness in which I can fumble, and that only a Divine Savior can help me.
I wonder about the depth of your understanding of your faith if you are a Christian who thinks you have all the answers or are judgmental. Lighten up and look into your own heart before you cast stones at unbelievers or at believers who happen to struggle with different sins than yours.
If you are an unbeliever who expects perfection, especially perfect "love" according to your personal definition, of Christians, you are guilty of being just as judgmental as what you love to accuse Christians of being. Lighten up. Bear in mind that Chritians are human beings as weak as anybody else, struggly with their personal demons just as you do with yours--or would if you had the guts to face them.
I do not claim to be an authority. I was saying that Cheryl, with her tolerance and love, is behaving in a way that seems to me to be the meaning of "Christian".
And most Christians I know do not take the Bible literally. They believe in evolution, because science can prove it to be so. They believe homosexuality is wired genetically, because there is evidence to show it is. The believe that the Bible is filled with lessons to learn from without taking them literally.
Muslims are among the most devoted believers there are. Yet they do not believe as you do. Same with Hindus. Cheryl's article, I believe (forgive me if I misunderstand your meaning, Cheryl) states that there is room for all believers, and that her version of God can love them all.
How can you hate someone for loving?
I am not a Christian, but, Felix, I am a much more tolerant and forgiving person than you are.
Second, I don't know how anyone who walks with Christ can say all paths lead to the same place. That makes no sense at all. That would call Christ a liar because He said He is the only Way. We live in a world where truth is compromised and everyone is right I guess in their own eyes. Or we live in a world of uncertainty and no one knows what to believe anymore so they believe everything they hear and see.
Being an ordained minister makes you more accountable for knowing the facts. Doing the old one line Charlie, to try to fill the offering plate doesn't work in Cyber Space.
Let's apply what Jesus said and see if your Ordained status makes you the lead Choir Boy.
Here Jesus puts a premium on faith
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Here Jesus speaks of forgiveness and salvation.
1One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples."
2He said to them, "When you pray, say:
" 'Father,[a]
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.[b]
3Give us each day our daily bread.
4Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[c]
And lead us not into temptation.[d]' "
5Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, 6because a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.'
7"Then the one inside answers, 'Don't bother me. The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything.' 8I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet because of the man's boldness[e] he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
Nicodemus Speaks with Jesus about Salvation
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]"
4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"
5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9"How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Just like every minister I've ever bothered to respond too you are full of shit. You only preach what you leaned in the seminary, and what you gleaned from the churches weekly assembly line sermon. Doesn't anybody in the ministry bother to read the bible or understand the heart of Jesus?
It's assholes like you, who destroy Christianity, by imposing your lack of understanding on your followers. I noticed you really keyed in on homosexuals. Could I ask if Your a Catholic Priest, with Choir Boys? I have found, it is often those that are the most homophobic, that will drop to their knees the quickest.
You know what I have to say to this:
BWAAAAA HAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA HAAAAA HAA HAA!!!!!!!!!! YEAH RIIIIGHT! HAHAHA!!
To those however, who have chosen to call names and be disrespectful, I would ask that you not do that. It takes the focus away from the topic at hand, and this group has no rules other than "be respectful in your comments". I'm a firm believer that anyone can make their point in a respectful way if they choose to do so. Thank you..
"We have now the remarkable spectacle that just when many scientific men are agreed that there is no part of the Darwinian system that is of any great influence, and that, as a whole, the theory is not only unproved, but
impossible, the ignorant, half-educated masses have acquired the idea that it is to be accepted as a fundamental fact."
Dr. Thomas Dwight, famed professor at Harvard University
"Many have a feeling that somehow intelligence must have been involved in the laws of the universe."
Charles Townes, 1964 Nobel Prize winner in physics, "Science Finds God," Newsweek, 20 July, 1998
"Evolution can be thought of as sort of a magical religion. Magic is simply an effect without a cause, or at least a competent cause.'Chance,' 'time,'and 'nature,' are the small gods enshrined at evolutionary temples.
Yet these gods cannot explain the origin of life. These gods are impotent.
Thus, evolution is left without competent cause and is, therefore, only a magical explanation for the existence of life..."
Dr. Randy L. Wysong, instructor of human anatomy and physiology
"The only competing explanation for the order we all see in the biological world is the notion of special creation."
Dr. Colin Patterson, evolutionist and senior Paleontologist at the British Museum of Natural History, which houses 60 million fossils
"A close inspection discovers an empirical impossibility to be inherent in the idea of evolution."
Dr. Nils Heribert-Nilsson, Swedish botanist and geneticist
"Darwin's theory of evolution is the last of the great nineteenth-century mystery religions. And as we speak it is now following Freudians and Marxism into the Nether regions, and I'm quite sure that Freud, Marx and Darwin
are commiserating one with the other in the dark dungeon where discarded gods gather."
Dr. David Berlinski
"The facts of paleontology seem to support creation and the flood rather than evolution. For instance, all the major groups of invertebrates appear "suddenly" in the first fossil ferrous strata (Cambrian) of the earth with their distinct specializations indicating that they were all created almost at the same time."
Professor Enoch, University of Madras
"Evolution is faith, a religion."
Dr. Louist T. More, professor of paleontology at Princeton University
"The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number with 40,000 nought's after it...It is big enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of Evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence."
Sir Fred Hoyle, highly respected British physicist and astronomer
"I believe that one day the Darwinian myth will be ranked the greatest deceit in the history of science. When this happens, many people will pose the question, "How did this ever happen?"
Dr. Sorren Luthrip, Swedish Embryologist
"Everyone who is seriously interested in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe a spirit vastly superior to man, and one in the face of which our modest powers must feel humble."
Albert Einstein
"As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency--or, rather, Agency--must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?"
Astronomer George Greenstein, "The Symbiotic Universe,"
"Astronomy leads us to a unique event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say "supernatural") plan."
Nobel laureate Arno Penzias, "Cosmos, Bios, and Theos,"
"It (evolution) is sustained largely by a propaganda campaign that relies on all the usual tricks of rhetorical persuasion: hidden assumptions, question-begging statements of what is at issue, terms that are vaguely defined and change their meaning in midargument, attacks of straw men, selective citation of evidence, and so on. The theory is also protected by its cultural importance.
It is the officially sanctioned creation story to modern society, and publicly funded educational authorities spare no effort to persuade people to believe it."
Professor Phillip Johnson
"The vast mysteries of the universe should only confirm our belief in the certainty of its Creator. I find it as difficult to understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a superior rationality behind the existence of the universe"
Werner von Braun, father of space science, September 7, 2002
"We have had enough of the Darwinian fallacy. It is time we cry, "The emperor has no clothes."
Dr. Hsu, geologist at the Geological Institute in Zurich
"It is hard to resist the impression that the present structure of the universe, apparently so sensitive to minor alterations in numbers, has been rather carefully thought out...The seemingly miraculous concurrence of these numerical values must remain the most compelling evidence for cosmic design."
Physicist Paul Davies, "God and the New Physics,"
"Unfortunately for Darwin's future reputation, his life was spent on the problem of evolution which is deductive by nature...It is absurd to expect that many facts will not always be irreconcilable with any theory of evolution and, today, every one of his theories is contradicted by facts."
Dr. P.T. Mora
"The more statistically improbable a thing is, the less we can believe that it just happened by blind chance. Superficially, the obvious alternative to chance is an intelligent Designer."
Professor Richard Dawkins, an atheist
"The Darwinian theory of descent has not a single fact to confirm it in the realm of nature. It is not the result of scientific research but purely the product of the imagination."
Albert Fleishman, professor of zoology & comparative anatomy at Erlangen University
"The complexity of the simplest known type cell is so great that it is impossible to accept that such an object could have been thrown together by some kind of freakish, vastly improbable event. Such an occurrence would be indistinguishable from a miracle."
Dr. Michael Denton, molecular biochemist
"Evolution is a fairy tale for adults."
Dr. Paul LeMoine, one of the most prestigious scientists in the world
"The world is too complicated in all parts and interconnections to be due to chance alone. I am convinced that the existence of life with all its order in each of its organisms is simply too well put together. Each part of a living thing depends on all its other parts to function. How does each part know? How is each part specified at conception? The more one learns of biochemistry the more unbelievable it becomes unless there is some type of organizing principle---an architect."
Scientist Allan Sandage
"Hypothesis [evolution] based on no evidence and irreconcilable with the facts....These classical evolutionary theories are a gross over-simplification of an immensely complex and intricate mass of facts, and it amazes me that they are swallowed so uncritically and readily, and for such a long time, by so many scientists without a murmur of protest."
Sir Ernst Chan, Nobel Prize winner for developing penicillin
"The simplicity that was once expected to be the foundation of life has proven to be a phantom; instead, systems of horrendous, irreducible complexity inhabit the cell. The resulting realization that life was designed by an intelligence is a shock to us in the twentieth century who have gotten used to thinking of life as the result of simple natural laws.
Michael j. Behe, Biochemist
"The chance that higher life forms might have emerged through evolutionary processes is comparable with the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junk yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the material therein."
Sir Fred Hoyle, Highly respected British astronomer and mathematician
"Meanwhile, their [evolutionists] unproven theories will continue to be accepted by the learned and the illiterate alike as absolute truth, and will be defended with a frantic intolerance that has a parallel only in the bigotry of the darkest Middle Ages. If one does not accept evolution as an infallible dogma, implicitly and without question, one is regarded as an unenlightened ignoramus or is merely ignored as an obscurantist or a naive, uncritical fundamentalist."Dr. Alfred Rehwinkel
"It must be significant that nearly all the evolutionary stories I learned as a student....have now been debunked."
Dr. Derek V. Ager, Department of Geology, Imperial College, London
"For over 20 years I thought I was working on evolution....But there was not one thing I knew about it... So for the last few weeks I've tried putting a simple question to various people, the question is, "Can you tell me any one thing that is true?" I tried that question on the Geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, A very prestigious body of Evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, "Yes, I do know one thing, it ought not to be taught in High School"....over the past few years....you have experienced a shift from Evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith...Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge."
Dr. Collin Patterson evolutionist, address at the American Museum of Natural History, New York City, Nov. 1981
"Evolution is baseless and quite incredible."
Dr. John Ambrose Fleming, President, British Association for Advancement of Science
"A growing number of respectable scientists are defecting from the evolutionist camp.....moreover, for the most part these "experts" have abandoned Darwinism, not on the basis of religious faith or biblical persuasions, but on strictly scientific grounds, and in some instances, regretfully."
Dr. Wolfgang Smith, physicist and mathematician
"In the meantime, the educated public continues to believe that Darwin has provided all the relevant answers by the magic formula of random mutations plus natural selection---quite unaware of the fact that random mutations turned out to be irrelevant and natural selection tautology."
Dr. Arthur Koestler
"The pathetic thing about it is that many scientists are trying to prove the doctrine of evolution, which no science can do."
Dr. Robert A. Milikan, physicist and Nobel Prize winner
"I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially to the extant that it's been applied, will be one of the greatest jokes in the history books of the future. Posterity will marvel that so flimsy and dubious a hypothesis could be accepted with the incredible credulity that it has."
Malcolm Muggeridge
"A further aspect I should like to discuss is what I call the practice of infinite escape clauses. I believe we developed this practice to avoid facing the conclusion that the probability of self-reproducing state is zero. This is what we must conclude from classical quantum mechanical principles as Wigner demonstrated"
Sidney W. Fox
"Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con-men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever! In explaining evolution we do not have one iota of fact."
Dr. Newton Tahmisian, Atomic Energy Commission
"In conclusion, evolution is not observable, repeatable, or refutable, and thus does not qualify as either a scientific fact or theory."
Dr. David N. Menton, PhD in Biology from Brown University
I am not stating what I think of your article just in that I love that you are trying to put it down what you feel and look at it. I would'nt be surprised if you want to go back and clarify and tweek it and if some of the comments have made you think more. Its HUGE ...taking in the whole idea of ONE GOD and his Son who saved us. Why do you believe in him and if you DO believe in him do you believe every word he spoke to you? Its HUGE. I think about it all the time. I really want to be right and to live right. I don't want to judge anyone. Jesus loved us all. I am a sinner just like the next person and I pray that my sins will be forgiven because Jesus was who the Bible says he was. I hold to that FAITH. Cheryl.... Keep thinking and studying on this.... Your desire to understand and come to a conclusion is normal but one thing about being a Christian is that you are prodded constantly to grow and that is uncomfortable at times. Plus there are many out there that will judge. Try not to be one of them. I do it too. I think these thoughts. It does me no good. It's just wasted energy. We are commanded to Love... If that is God's command then he must love us all too. I am not worried about any other person's sin just my own. Keep growing. (((((CHERYL)))))
Yet, what these anti-Christians want is not 'just' tolerence, but rather...that we espouse and further...that we endorse actions that are deemed objectionable. No can do.
No person is turned away from the church and Cheryl is correct in stating that people should come as is...all have sinned and fallen short, but, people have to know what is and what isn't considered sinful. You can't just pick and choose what biblical laws you want to follow. If an adulterer ask if it's alright to have several intimate relationships...you have to tell...no. If a person is envious...they must know that they need to try to be a little bit less envious...we can't let the amoral, materialistic, atheist world dictate to us what we should and should not believe. They can believe whatever they choose...as for me I have chosen Jesus Christ. I don't know from non-Christians or people of other faiths...I'm not big on proselytizing...they've a right to their' beliefs. I respect their faith and don't go around dissing them, but, people feel that they have a right to disrespect and malign my religion and I'm suppose to turn the other cheek...well that good of a Christian I'm not. The notion that Christians have to be meek and humble before the enemies of our faith...doesn't wash with me. I reserve my meekness and humbleness for GOD.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth."
Romans: 1:16
Yet I do have an opinion ... like A.H.'s, everyone has one ... and we are all each entitled to our own. That is the beauty of Creation (and/or evolution), DIVERSITY !
The point being, In the greater Universe, there are no exact and absolute definitions between anything, ALL is an interconnected movement of harmonic dancing. In that greater picture, there is even nothing such as a perfectly 'straight' line, neither is there any such thing as an absolute 'solid'. These are but 'concepts' that we as a species have come up with by common agreement, to the degree that 'most' see and consider them as 'facts', if not actual truths, in the case of the most deluded.
But that is what our perceived (by most) 'reality' is, a common DELUSION !!!
So I would say that leaves an awful lot of room for some GREY AREA possibility. Those are also the areas of faith, as well as reason, often they overlap and co-mingle, as they should, and in fact do, for those intelligent enough to recognize real truth.
So to certain 'Christians', or those of any other 'Faith' that has a ONE and ONLY way ... I say, GET REAL !!!
The only REAL TRUTH, is that there is NO ONE REAL TRUTH, best expressed by the equation I call the BET; Basic Equation of Truth, expressed as (+=-) and explained in my book, Spirit Calls...
Everything is an intermix, even the good and the bad, we are a COMBINATION of it all, that may well include elements of CREATION as well as EVOLUTION, there is most definitely a SPIRITUAL interconnected INTELLEGENCE involved ! I for one, have experienced such and know that as MY fact and TRUTH !
I also know THAT to be the message of many past spiritual people, of which Jesus was but one of. The message is a Spiritual one, it cannot be fully understood except from the Spiritual position ... which far too many will never reach because of their insistence that it only comes from thinking a certain way, or worse yet, following their version of a religion.
(+=-)=:-)=Trinity Thought=Cooperation and Compassion.
(+/-)=:-( =Duality Thought=Separation, Divisiveness.
With these new ideals, my former ignorant, blind confusion about the nature of the Godhead have been cleared up.
{X}^2/2+3 = Love and 24
@~! = Jack Bauer
At least I can explain my symbols, I doubt that yours have meaning even to you.
With all DUE respect, j.
Jerry, it is you, that denies that others have anything to show you. You have claimed to have a truth you claim as "as MY fact and TRUTH". That is your way of saying that YOU know all that you need already. I have NEVER even come close to making such a claim... it is farcical to do so in my opinion. Only God has such a truth...by anyone's defintion of God.
I would actually love a spiritual conversation with you. But as I said in other posts, I will only enter into such a conversation under the position of mutual respect. As your use continued use of "DUE" and continued mislabeling of me indicate that you don't respect what I could bring to the table, the conversation would be meaningless.
I have no doubt that your symbols have meanings. And I also bet that I could discover truths from you. I believe that about almost everyone, until they prove to me otherwise. But without mutual respect, the discussion would be meaningless. You have placed me in a box and regardless of what I say, you keep pushing me back into that box. Like I said before, when you stop using a a dialog with me to push your book and when you wish to enter into that conversation with mutual respect, then I will participate with you.
Check out this.
I do the best that I can with the information that I have to work with, I do usually give the benefit of the doubt when possible. I sometimes make mistakes, this may have been one of those times.
When I used the term 'fundamentalist' above, it was due in most part as a reactionary response to your post that seemed to ridicule my symbolizations, also in that, I was lumping you with a couple others that I believed to be fundamentalists based upon certain similarities of thought. Not that much different than where I 'label' those that appear to get their key descriptive words against liberals, direct from FOX. Sometimes there is (often) direct correlation between words/phrases and their source.
But I do sense a willingness to discuss things (I would prefer to discuss rather than debate). So I will gladly retract what does not fit, removing the box, and starting over.
But I must attempt to clarify where I stand on 'my' truth.
If by some slight chance, some willing individual did make some contact with God via Spirit, and came up with a truth to correct mankind's misunderstandings, in order to help all of mankind to better make their own connection to their God ... should they not attempt to pass said information on to their fellows ... ???
If I truly believe (and I do) that I have such a revelation, then why in the world should I play the game of humility and just sit in a cave expecting the world to come find me when they are ready ?
It is not 'me' that is the important issue here, it is the message. But most would prefer to not hear what might require any kind of change for them, they would just as soon be rid of the messenger. It has always been so, a couple thousand years ago, the Pharisees saw things that way.
Anyway, I do have something new and relatively novel to tell the world, and I do feel that time is running out for the world to make the needed corrections in thought to save itself. My message could make the difference ... why should I pretend that it would not, and not pass it on ?
People read all kind of books to pass the time or be entertained, why should they not even consider reading one that could change their life for the better, beyond even their wildest imaginative dreams. That is how important my message is for somebody.
By the way, I did look up bigot. I personally do not feel I qualify for the moniker ... at least no more than you do for fundamentalist . :-)
Peace, j.
I hope that Christians learn a couple of things from this. One, a preacher, priest, or rabbi, has no special standing with God. Jesus said, "Judge a tree by the fruit it bares". Well almost every minister in the country jumped into the bush camp, because they were promised faith based government grants. This has lead to the worst depression since the Hoover administration, and many of our brave young people coming home in flag draped coffins, or severely disabled. The good news is the preachers have bigger houses and nicer cars than anyone else in town. Still every Sunday, half the sermon is spent preaching about tithing. For the price of a dog, you can get a quote, "Man Of God", to say anything.
Christians, during the first century suffered greatly. Shared everything, and worshiped God in believers homes. Women always had an equal place at the table. My how times have changed.
Time to get back to the basics, and let everyone worship God in their own way. Maybe a good swift kick in the ass for all the church elders, regardless of religion, would be a good thing too.
"Yet, this is the anti-Christian's trump-card against Christians...we are hate-filled and are out to get non-believers."
The above is not true. Being "out to get" someone and judging them are two different things. You don't have to condone behavior to accept it as part of a person and love them in spite of it. That's Cheryl's point here, which you are obviously too thick to recieve because you are too wound up in the church's perception to the masses.
Maybe what you preach is right ... who knows ... . I realize that Christians don't have it easy nowadays, but you aren't helping the perception of your religion by preaching intolerance.
Good article, Cheryl. I got what you were saying, and you were tactful and patient with your responses to harsh criticism for your beliefs.
I can not thank you enough for writing this article and starting this group.