So, you think hooking up with the venal Bzzagent bunch was bad? According to the email I (and probably all of you, as well) just received, Gather is now going to advertise on the most biased, rightwing "news" outlet available, short of the Christian Broadcasting Network. And they're proud of it!
I cannot express how dismayed I am at this turn of events. I do NOT want to be associated with the likes of Bill O'Reilly and I certainly do not want Gather to be inundated with his fans. There are enough wingnuts here now, spewing their "patriotic" bigoted nonsense. That Gather is actively seeking to enroll them as new members is so disheartening, I can scarcely express my disgust.
At this point, the only way I will remain a contributing member of this site is if they also advertise on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart to balance out the bias. Otherwise, I'm outta here.
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Comments: 100
Terry's right about the failure to achieve a real conversation with Bush fans: they cannot let new info in, because opening up means letting out some of the crap their head's been filled with -- if you keep out the air, you can't smell how bad it stinks.
But, I gave myself some time to relax and ponder the possibility that not everyone is as shallow as Flounder/Apu/YesMan (whatever he calls himself these days.) I still maintain Flounder isn't really what he presents -- he's a catalyst, a needle, a prod, to get conversations raging.
I have two brothers I love dearly. One is actually here on Gather and open to discussion of many topics whether or not we agree. The other is used to laying down the law, getting red in the face, shouting the Bible ("There was never an Ice Age! Read your Bible!" -- I'm not kidding!) and ridiculing anyone who disagrees with him. It's not a fair fight -- facts and reason on one side, him on the other. (sigh)
I fear more of that here, but I need to hold out hope that there are folks ready to participate in reasoned dialogue and exploration. Without finding that we can meet in the middle somewhere, there is little hope for a brighter future.
Here it is again If you insist.
I am glad about it. I love Gather I love O'Reilly And I love Fox News. You ask whay else?
Yep President Bush lol
Dont some of you have something better to do than make fun of people?
Bush is a complete failure in every aspect of the job requirements for President, and that's not making fun of him when I say it. It is a lamentable fact.
What is "whay"?
[hands kleenex to Dannielle, who dabs at the sarcasm dripping down her chin]
Dame, I found this article through the recent comments feature.
The other night it was flamingo droppings and cat fur... Gather really needs to clean itself up! [vacuuming]
Let's face it, serveral media studies have shown that the average Fox News watcher tends to be a bit more dull witted than the average American. A fan of Bill O'Reilly? You didn't, by chance, sign on to this site as a Bzz agent?
NO MORE!
Best regards, Ben
Author "Leading People to be Highly Motivated and Committed"
Best regards, Ruth
Author, "LIFE, DEATH AND OTHER TRIVIA"
Wrong.
I am not going to be scared off by a few people that don't have anything better to do than harass people. I have been here since August the. I haven't bother a sole. I kept up with all the other harassments I read. Now its my turn? Wrong.
I am not playing the game.
You can call me a right wing whatever all you want - I prefer to hear more than one side - I also prefer not to write off entire populations of people.
Bring 'em on.......
You guys are getting paranoid.
I mean, there are tons of cable channels out there with affordable rates and which are less biased.
So now we'll have an influx of rightwingers. And NO, CNN will not balance that out on the left. Larry King Live - is that leftist? Hardly.
Smart people take a little of each. Very smart people read Al Jazeera and BBC online to balance the thing out.
"Surely you jest, Ben. Fox is PROUD to be the rightwingnut mouthpiece. If some of the views expressed on Gather really were aired by O'Reilly and Gang, it would only be to demean and ridicule them. Fox news is about as balanced as President Slackjaw is brainy."
No jesting on my part. To my knowledge, Fox News prides itself on being "fair and balanced", not right wing or left. I watch enough to know that they go out of their way to consistently present both sides of any issue. On CNN I only get one side.
O'Reilly's show is not a news show and he is not a news announcer. He is just another entertainer plying his wares, no different than Larry King. Lots of people think him liberal and others think conservative. For me, he has had some interesting viewpoints and others I consider ill-informed. I don't regularly watch his show, however.
Best regards, Ben
Author "Leading People to be Highly Motivated and Committed"
Signed,
A proud American Liberal and BzzAgent
when was the last time you heard a male commentator (outside of some of the long time hosts) that actually SOUNDED male???
all one big happy agreeing family gets BORING pretty quick in case you hadn't noticed..
I had hoped for an exchange about intelligent subjects - Art, Music, Poetry, Food, Sustainable Living
Perhaps some civil discourse about politics between well informed people who would disagree without being disrepectful of each other. It is what Gather promised me and why I joined.
It is looking less and less likely.
I read somewhere on the Gather network that they have bought time on both FOX and CNN. That should expose both camps to the propaganda from this strange web place.
CNN is not liberal.
It is like this
Fox is Fascist
CNN is only Conservative
Perhaps the purists see an opportunity here to convert the hedonists unless, of course, the purists themselves get overwhelmed and carried away by the hedonistic lifestyles.
It takes all kinds of people to make a world.
Liberals seem to love to talk among themselves. They don't seem to want to discuss issues or learn of alternative views. They seem to have the best time when they never hear anything but their own views and quickly resort to hurling insults at anyone invading their bubble. As you can see from this thread, they simply don't want to hear anyone who doesn't believe as they do.
My friends in New York City have repeatedly explained this process to me over the years, but it never ceases to amaze me.
Best regards, Ben
Author "Leading People to be Highly Motivated and Committed"
Bush supporters don't discuss, they call people silly names, drop a few insults, then run off
I have to point out that Bill Kling is the President, not the owner of Minnesota Public Radio, which has several stations, including three in the Twin Cities metro (news, classical, and contemporary music).
As for the Daily Show, I think it's a decent counterpoint to Fox News because it is liberal-leaning and has a sense of humour. And no, I'm not a liberal, and no, I don't think it's "real news." Lighten up!
No radical viewpoint lasts forever unless those who hold it never want change. I welcome views from all sides of all issues. If I can't defend or debate my point of view against them I am the problem, not the opposition.
Incidentally, I am still receiving nothing from Gather by way of notifications of postings, comments, or anything else. I would like to ask if you were notified of this posting in the usual email process. I would really like to know if I'm the only one experiencing this "glitch".
These guys, for some reason, tend to be constantly condescending, patronizing, and absolutely unable to craft a coherent, intelligent argument to support their conservative positions.
Two of the most vocal right wingers on Gather are Flounder and Yes Man (who later became Apu). These guys aren't helping their side one bit.
If there were some intelligent conservatives offering commentary then I would be interested in the discussion.
So far, however, what I see are reactionary, flaming morons parroting talking points of Limbaugh and Hannity, or bizarrely zealous religious extremists representing the right here.
There are a few more conservative people here who ARE intelligent and interesting to listen to, but STRANGELY enough, the people I'd point out to you would almost ALL be women, such as Pam Freeth.
The only other person who comes to mind as a conservative I like here is Ernie Zarra.
But advertising to get more Yes Men online? No thank you.
Well, here's a quotation for you that seems pretty appropriate for many of the things you say:
"I do not think it means what you think it means."
If you think the views of the people that have commented on this topic are "communist," then you are pitifully misinformed. But then, that's not uncommon for a neocon troll.
By the way, many "liberals" talk amongst themselves because it's no fun to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. And since most of the people so armed seem to agree with us, there's no need to argue.
As far as I am concerned, Gather can advertise wherever they want. After all, NPR is mostly liberal. Perhaps they wanted to balance out the membership by having more conservatives. Or maybe Fox News had cheaper rates than broadcast or CNN.
As long as the new members are cogent, obviously schooled in English and able to analyze/debate, then I will welcome them whatever their opinions.
Dude, you are the one who has a picture in your icon of a fat man, and a username that also says "fat man," and considering that you don't put up your real photo, you are likely to not only be fat (which is fixable) but damn ugly.
And yes, the recent photos of me are recent and accurate. You WISH you could touch this hot bod of mine. In your dreams, loser!
Honey, you couldn't pay me a MILLION DOLLARS to touch you.
Oh, my bad. You obviously meant, "Steph, you are sooooo easy on the eye."
I've asked this question before, but nobody has answered it: WERE YOU NOTIFIED OF THE PUBLICATION OF THIS ARTICLE, or did you find it by other means? I really need to know so that I can compose an informed letter to TPTB. Thanks for your responses, everyone.
I myself am a moderate and would welcome a balance here, because in the few short weeks I have been on Gather, I would say the number of liberals far outnumbers that of the conservatives.
I have also seen a lot of digs and name calling. It is almost like we are on the school playground. How can that approach ever prove a point or make for a legitimate debate on any subject?
If liberals feel they have the solution to all of these so called problems in the world, then tell us your ideas. Conservatives the same. But Bush bashing and name calling isn't going to get this country anywhere expect more divided.
Now if I could just figure out where all this tar and the used brush came from. Firesmith would probably just tell me to use straight gasoline to get the tar off....
Why do you assume that just because someone chooses to watch O'Reilly automatically implies they are idiots? Sure, their views would be different from yours, but that doesn't implicate their intelligence. I used to watch O'Reilly (before he went all radical on me) and I find I can read, write and spell adequately.
That's not to say Gather wouldn't get any illiterates or those who lack the ability to analyze. But I believe Gather would get its share of those types regardless of where they advertise.
Myself, I can't watch FOX News for any length of time.
It frightens the animals.
What do I read? Regularly the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, and Investor's Business Daily. Also articles on all sides of what I consider to be important issues such as economics, middle east politics, global warming, evolution, healthcare, technology, leadership and history as it relates to issues. As for books, never fictional these days but a fair number of non-fiction. Latest right now "The Birth of Plenty" and "Darwinism under the microscope".
You refer to "the military mind" and having served in both military and civilian executive positions, I am unaware of a real difference as concerns their minds. In terms of beliefs and values, there are some rather large differences. The military continues to stress values and ethics, that there right and wrong exist. Conversely, the civilian world seems to prefer "there are no absolute truths except the absolute truth that there are no absolute truths", a belief in relativism, and a belief in multiculturalism meaning "no cultural, no matter how advanced, is superior to any other culture no matter how backward, oppressive or violent".
As concerns civilian business as compared to the military, the differences exist only in method, not effect. Direct disobedience of an order in the military can get you court-martialed while in the civilian world it can get you fired. In both, many such events are ignored as bosses refuse to confront the infration. In both worlds, there are those who conform to get by and those who think for themselves. It is impossible for me to accurately comment on the relative sizes of these groups. I have always been somewhat of an iconoclast and my views were never all that popular in the Navy or in the civilian world.
Terry, you said -
"Ben's sweeping stereotyping of liberals as close-minded and wrapped up in themselves is exactly the sort of close-mindedness that I find hard to work with. I have my biases. I am not blind to them. But it gets tedious listening to how I am not aware of them. Or, that I am naive or misinformed or just wrong. It's the same issue I have being lectured to by Bush about "terrorists being dangerous". Its a demeaning line of argument and it makes him look like a fool to this liberal."
That was probably in response to my comment -
"Liberals seem to love to talk among themselves. They don't seem to want to discuss issues or learn of alternative views. They seem to have the best time when they never hear anything but their own views and quickly resort to hurling insults at anyone invading their bubble. As you can see from this thread, they simply don't want to hear anyone who doesn't believe as they do. My friends in New York City have repeatedly explained this process to me over the years, but it never ceases to amaze me."
I made my comments after reading all the comments on Ruth's article. It was obvious to me that the liberals did not want to have conservatives make comments or present their views. I also noted off hand comments about people who aren't liberal such as "troglodytes" by you, "right wing lunatics", "nothing more frustrating or depressing than knowing there are FOX news watchers out there", "Holy Shit!!! Bill O'Reilly and Fox New are the worst things about American pop culture. Not good, not good at all.", "Terry's right about the failure to achieve a real conversation with Bush fans: they cannot let new info in, because opening up means letting out some of the crap their head's been filled with -- if you keep out the air, you can't smell how bad it stinks.", "i lOve bUsH. Who DAre u Mke fuN of a gReAt man likee hIm. GOD is veagneful aNd Iss GoINg to pUndish U Liberaals.", "And I fear that a wave of Fox News morons will only further pollute the site with people who can neither speak nor write grammatical English (per your above comment) and whose views are primarily predigested rightwing garbage.", and "Low IQ and/or poor writing skills seem to be common in most neocon circles.".
As Larry noted in his post, "Forsooth! Methinks I have wandered into a nest of ultra liberal Socialists!"
You may want to ignore the obvious, Terry, but what I said reflects only what I have observed firsthand. I have attempted discussions of several important issues of our day such as global warming, economics and terrorism. Each has been met much as I have observed here. You make a big deal out of sources. When I present what appear to be facts, you can refute them or not or challenge my conclusions from those facts. To challenge my sources is to refuse to discuss the subject. If you have different data, fine. Present it and your conclusions from it. Then we can discuss.
Best regards, Ben
Author "Leading People to be Highly Motivated and Committed"
There are conservatives who are articulate and can think - and while I disagree with Ben Simonton, at least Ben writes in complete sentences and knows how to spell.
But the general sense I get from the Fox News guys (and you can tell who they are, because they don't have any photos up yet and signed up in the last few days)...well, they just parrot right wing talking points but don't have any real opinions or thought processes of their own.
I'm sticking around here just to challenge these mindsets...but if this is what we're going to be getting on Gather I'd have to say that my personal enjoyment and participation will be limited somewhat.
I don't mind discussing issues with INTELLIGENT conservatives. There are some out there. Most of these guys coming on board, however, are just proving my theory that the average conservative in this country is an ill-informed, unthinking reactionary who doesn't even understand the basics of the constitution.
You're not as bad as some of them. But it's clear from my reading that a lot of these guys coming on board have no common sense, a poor education at best, and a very hard time understanding the finer points of an issue.
I'm not weak by saying I don't want to be around here to bang my head against a wall all the time.
Of course, being neither liberal or conservative or progressive, I have plenty of opporunity for that.
If they prefer rants and flames to rational discourse, there are ways to handle that.
Gather would reflect more of the real world diversity if some of them join.
What I do have a major problem with is the possibility of Gather censoring or any way penalizing someone with dissenting views. For myself, that is a far larger issue than the diversity of Gather.
I'm interested in all points of view and will be open to persuasion. I hope I disappoint your fears.
BTW, I have tickets to Bill O'Reilly's book signing at the Nixon Library 9/28. Now how bad a guy is that.
This guy SELLS tickets for a book signing??? On top of buying the book, you have to buy his autograph? Greed wrapped in venality surrounded by self-aggrandizement...and you're falling for it. And at the NIXON library, yet!!! Of course... he was not a crook, either.
Sorry... this is causing me to wet myself. Hope you enjoy standing in line to meet the Great Man. *doubled up with laughter*
I would gladly pay a small sum to get a provided book and not have to deal with a hugh crowd. I like Bill and would hope you would respect that as I would respect your liking of someone I don't care for.
That's great your a writer. I'd be interested in reviewing one. Looking at your picture are you a mystery writer?
How many agree with Dames assesment of me. I would be interested.