Over the past year we have heard a continuous drumbeat from the anti-war crowd that we should just get our troops out of Iraq. We have been told that we are losing and we will never win the peace. We are told that we are caught in the middle of a civil war. We are told that our enlisted military is only in the miltary because Bush's economic policy have forced them to join and now they are dying because of his failed policies. We have been told that Bush lied to get us into war and we should just leave now because this whole thing is a lie. These same people who tell us we need to just bring them home are the same people who would screaming that we need to do something for the poor oppressed people in some third world country, whose dictatorial leadership is killing and raping them. What do you think would happen to Iraq if we jus picked up and left? Didn't we try that back in the early 90's? We kicked Saddam out of Kuwait and we stopped short of defeating him because the precious U.N. told us to stop. Saddam then went on to murder countless numbers as an example to those who thought their day of freedom had come.
Well shouldn't we jsut negotiate with Al-Quaeda in Iraq? They will surely convince Osama that since we left Iraq, that we should be spared. After all we can negotiate with anyone for peace. Everyone wants peace as long as you don't have to give anything up for it. Osama wants peace as long as western civilization is dragged back to the 12th century. So I guess if we just agree to give up our electricity, indoor plumbing, ari conditioning, cars, tv, and sleeping indoors he will gladly stop strapping bombs on children and sending them kill us. For me that is more than I want to give up.
Is it sad to see our soldiers killed and wounded? You bet it is. These brave men and women put their lives on the line everyday for us. Shouldn't we allow them to finish the job? Have there been mistakes made in the planning of the war? I am sure there have been. I am sure there were mistakes in every war leading up to now. Just because we make a mistake do we just pack up and quit? WHat kind of a message does that send? The same message we sent Osama in Mogadishu. He has publicly said that he saw that if we suffered some losses we would pull out. If we packed up now, before we had secured the peace and given the Iraqi's a fighting chance to make their new government work, every soldier who has died over is for nothing. Personally that is not a message I want to send to our military.
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The entire region would likely become engulfed in the civil war, as Iran, Turkey, and perhaps even Pakistan all saw the opportunity to bolster their own strength in the region.
"Didn't we try that back in the early 90's? "
No. In 1991, a previous Bush's invasion intentionally left out occupying the nation, because he knew how damaging it would be, not only to the region, but to the US as well. Too bad the lesson was lost on his dim son.
"We kicked Saddam out of Kuwait and we stopped short of defeating him because the precious U.N. told us to stop."
Incorrect. The senior Bush wanted nothing to do with overthrowing Saddam.
"Saddam then went on to murder countless numbers as an example to those who thought their day of freedom had come. "
They attempted to overthrow the government, after being assured by the senior Bush that we had their backs. What do you suppose the US military would do if tens of thousands of US citizens suddenly rose up to overthrow the government? That's right, they'd murder them.
"Well shouldn't we jsut negotiate with Al-Quaeda in Iraq? "
That's what the junior Bush has been doing. They wanted us out of Saudi Arabia, so he quickly did so. They wanted Bin Laden to go free, so he let him. They wanted American freedoms to be broken apart, so Bush broke them. They wanted their funding sources to remain secret, so Bush hid them. They wanted Saddam gone, so Bush took him out. They wanted Iraq to be a breeding ground for terrorists to train on, so Bush left hundreds of tons of high explosives littering the landscape for them to loot and use at will. They wanted to use opium production in Afghanistan to fatten their wallets, so Bush gave them record production years. They wanted American borders and ports to be left wide open, so Bush left them open. Shall I go on?
"They will surely convince Osama that since we left Iraq, that we should be spared."
The Taliban offered Bin Laden after 9/11, but Bush refused to take him. Nice.
"After all we can negotiate with anyone for peace. "
We no longer have the moral authority to negotiate for anything, except with terrorists for the release of Fox news reporters, for instance.
"I guess if we just agree to give up our electricity, indoor plumbing, ari conditioning, cars, tv, and sleeping indoors he will gladly stop strapping bombs on children and sending them kill us."
This has nothing to do with anything, but it does serve to show how ignorant the right is about this.
"Is it sad to see our soldiers killed and wounded?"
Not to the chickenhawks republicans, who gleefully send them off to die and be maimed in illegal and unnecessary wars of aggression, for corporate profit.
"Shouldn't we allow them to finish the job? "
They have finished their job. They were tasked and trained for removing Saddam from power. They did so brilliantly. They have no further mission except to serve as crossfire fodder for the battling civil war factions.
"Have there been mistakes made in the planning of the war?"
Ya think? Maybe ignoring the calls of the numerous military experts who really KNEW what they were doing wasn't such a grand idea after all. In fact, maybe taking our eyes off the prize and diverting our attention to a nation that posed no threat to us and had caused us no harm whatsoever was an equally bad choice, huh?
"Just because we make a mistake do we just pack up and quit?"
There is nothing good that can come from our staying there. We are fueling the violence.
"WHat kind of a message does that send?"
That we're smart enough to recognize our mistakes, and we're not willing to allow further deaths of our soldiers by continuing down what is obviously a very stupid, wrong path.
"The same message we sent Osama in Mogadishu."
Where is that guy, btw?
"If we packed up now, before we had secured the peace and given the Iraqi's a fighting chance to make their new government work, every soldier who has died over is for nothing. "
They didn't die for nothing. They died for corporate profits and republican political power. Mightly honorable, huh? I guess we should leave them there so that more of them can glorify themselves with the same honorable death.
"Personally that is not a message I want to send to our military."
You'd prefer that we send the message that corporate profits and republican power are more important than their lives? That outta go over well with them.
Yes, by all means, when you cannot refute the message, kill the messenger. That's SOP for those on the right when they cannot respond to simple facts, right?
"but has there ever been a conservative that did anyhting moral or good? "
None of them are any longer supportive of today's GOP. Today's republican party no longer has any values, principles, or morals, so any TRUE conservative who DOES hold onto something of meaning has abandoned this failed, corrupt party.
That alternative is a restoration of integrity, credibility, and accountability to a government run amok. I can't imagine why anyone would possibly be opposed to that, and would choose "more of the same" instead. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
"I would like to know your source for the Taliban offering Bin Laden to Bush after 9/11."
http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11012004.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,573975,00.html
"I have heard that he was offered back in '98 to Clinton"
That is reportedly true as well. However, that was "pre-9/11." Bush's refusal to accept his head was "post-9/11." Additionally, Clinton never laid out the idea that he was the "national security president" as Bush has. Far more weight lies on Bush's shoulders to back up what he claims in this regard, and he has failed repeatedly and miserably.
"but it is new to me that Bush refused Bin Laden so we could go to war. "
We all can only hope to learn something new each day.
Please: how do you guys come up with this kind of nosense? I was in the first gulf war. Our mission was to kick Saddam out of Kuwait. Once we acheived that agenda; the war was over! There was never any thought of over throwing Iraq! Thus we did not stop because the UN told us to stop!
Adn what makes you think that the UN had the power to stop us from taking over Iraq in the first place? Did we not go in and take over Iraq without full UN aproval? Sure we had help from the Brits and a few other countries: But the UN wanted to give Saddam another resolution, rather than having us take him out!
peace
All of this is public record and easy to prove. It just boggles my mind why so many folks choose to ignore it still to this day.
This allows them to foster and embellish their irrational hatred for that organization of peace. Peace isn't very profitable, you know.
Yeah, isn't that remarkable? To them, this is the "national security president." Astonishing.
Clark, Most people let you say whatever you want and never question you on it. But I really need to know where the proof of that statement comes from? Because unless it is one of your conspiracy theories, that is the most B.S I have ever heard from you.
By the way Troy nice article.
That's why I'm in favor of a thorough and unbiased investigation of this administration's conspiracy theory regarding 911.
They will use any slogan, no matter how false, to regain power. They don't care if their crazed theories play into the hands of radical Islam.
There are two types of people who say things like "War for Profit". 1) the far left, and 2) the Jihadists.
Your right, but there's only this one right now that could make the difference between a continuance, or an end, to our republic.
The only reason why some traitors persist in continuing the war is because they own Halliburton stock and are profiting from the war.
NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON!
As for the notion that Clinton was offered OBL in 1998, that claim which was fabricated by ultra reich winger Richard Miniter, was discussed and fully discredited in the 9/11 Commission Report.