Adult Bullies

I recognize a lot of people who fall into this catagory. Especially when it comes to politics.

I never really thought of it in just that way. Even though I was once married to a man who would try to bully me into seeing things his way. I have also known sales people who appeared to try to bully me - "if your health was really important to you, you would be willing to spend $500.00 a month on super expensive vitamins". Now that this has started me thinking I have felt bullied by politicians. Fortunately, I have learned to think for myself.

I see these people everywhere. The ones I find most dangerous are the ones who smile sweetly, sing sad songs, and blackmail others through sympathy.

their objective is to destroy the self esteem of their victim, to wreck their reputation and to irreparably damage any relationships their victim may have developed.>Bill

Thank you for posting this.
I have heard of some of this going on here at Gather.
It's sad anyone would feel better by putting someone else down.

I can't see why someone would want to waist their time being that negative. I would like to think those types are in the minority of our population in the world.

Oh you mean like the Sandy Knaurs of the world

Sandy, it must be a new level of achievement here to become someone else's reason for existence. Way to go!

I would be flattered if I didn't find the woman absolutely scary. I believe she has crossed a line.

She should only wish she were important to me. I was just giving others a chance to see how vicious she is to people. If she doesn't want people seeing her garbage maybe she will go back to writing decent content that she is capable of.

Can we do ourselves a favor and ignore her and give Bill back the dignity of his thread?

Nothing against Bill of course, but Sandy never gave me the dignity of posting on my own articles without attacking me did she?

Strange thing about it all, I don't delete anything I do. I say what I mean and it is there for the world to see. Others delete what they don't want the world to see, and then send mass emails to ask others to attack me. I think someone is confused, and it isn't me.

Bill, guess we're have a showdown of bullies right here on your thread. I apologize.

If this was her article she could do whatever she wants with it, but I just don't think it's right to do this on someone else's thread. Sorry Bill.

Bill, I believe your point has been made and proven.
Excellent article, Bill.

Donna's right. We need to get back to the issue at hand: the evil leprechauns that are chasing me.

Questions, differences of opinion, and bringing in facts are not attacks or bullying techniques.

I think this thread is strangely pertinent to Bill's article. Here we have a very angry person, bent on revenge, who has decided to use a borderline libelous statement as her username.

Bill you know what they say, when a person is bullied long enough and has had enough, they fight back.
I never wanted to be abused by you and still don't. I deleted all four pages of my work to get you out of my life. The only reason I am still here is that I am still deleting YOU and your abuse from my comments pages, and where I have commented back to your abuse to me.
My grandfather used to have a saying that he used on people like you. People who have Diarrhea of the mouth; also have constipation of the ideas. I am finally beginning to see the real meaning of that since I met you. And Donna, it didn't seem to bother Sandy to do it to me all the time. As a matter of fact she did it for three weeks, every day, every article.

Great, so now we have to put up with this on Bill's articles...*sigh* One of the few refuges I had left from all the insanity....and who the hell is being malicious with a stupid name attacking a Gather member they apparently don't like. Grow UP!!! Keep your petty problems between you and the person you're having a problem with. Grow some balls and stop whining to everyone else because most of us don't give a rat's behind about your problem.

Looking on the bright side, at least Bill is getting points for this. ;-)

She is a little scary, don't you think? Like on the edge?

Marsha of course you don't care. I bet you would if you had to deal with the abuse Sandy doled out to me.

Bill, forgive me but I want this in public.

Mom, I have not attacked you, and I do not have a gang. I discredited some of what you published in your articles, as did others, of their own free will, because many of your claims were not accurate.

I guess I see some of what you are saying Bill, but at the same time, aren't these bullies you speak about pretty obvious to see in everyday interaction. I view this country current leadership very bullying, right down to the way they get their messages acrossed.

P.S. I'm removing my previous comment because maybe Number 1 Mom never went by the name "Jill." My investigative talents go right down the _____.

Sandy Knaur is the poster child for internet bullying

My grandfather had a saying, too: They're magically delicious!

Sandy that is not true. You were there on every article I wrote and every comment I tried to post. When I did say something and others agreed, you began an attack on them. I have lots of mail to prove that. Many people would mail me and ask why you were always putting down anything I had to say. You pick a person and go after them. I wonder what makes people that way. Maybe this article is the best thing to get it out in the open. You are in denial if you think that you are not causing undue harm by not letting others have their own opinion. After all you are not the only one at Gather who has a right to yours. I have never gone by my real name on websites. I have always been adedicatedmom. Is that not ok with you either?

She published an article written by someone named Jill, with a "this is not to be reproduced anywhere" copyright, Lisa. Your investigative talents seem okay to me.

If she had a valid point to make about something harassing or abusive Sandy had done - something which could be independently verified by an impartial observer - I'd be inclined to overlook the kooky, obsessive behavior.

But, I'm familiar with the back story behind this disagreement. What Sandy did to earn her wrath was to ask for some way to verify the extreme claims she was making. Since those claims could potentially harm the reputations, careers and livelihoods of a lot of people, I don't think that was too much to ask. Sandy also offered some facts from her own research which appeared to contradict the claims Number 1 Mom was making.

In an odd way, she is now obsessing about Sandy the same way she was obsessing about CPS in her articles.

N.1 M. Get over it, and move on.

My real name is JILL. I said that on the comment under the article when I was asked. I don't hide who I am but don't publish my first name on websites. I use my real name on anything that has been professionally published in any periodicals or books.

Yo Sandy, Is dis broad givin you a hard time? You won't us ta teach her a lesson 'r what ?

I hide who I am. Those evil leprechauns be crafty with their satellite tracking and whatnot.

I'm here, too, Sandy.

Bill, thanks for providing the catalyst article. I'll bet you weren't expecting this...

Hi Jill!



Damn, from now on...I AM THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER ON THIS SITE! Now to uncover the true identity of that Dr. Oza fellow.

Lucky, *you* are a hoot!

Poor Bill. Anger management, anyone?

Jill, seriously, what would it take to put this behind you?

Lisa, you'll have to add "Detective" or "P.I" to your screen name.

thanks, John, but contrary to popular slander, I'm really not much into gang wars. A few letters to Tom Gerace in my defense might be nice, however, since she has announced to the world that she "reported" me.

Chris, when Sandy or anyone else asked me to back up my articles, I did that. When asked to show a web site, I posted numerous, but those weren't enough. When asked for stats, I gave them but they were supposedly too long ago (2 years). When asked for states where things occured I gave 5-10 but was told that wasn't all of them. There is no pleasing someone who is close minded and just wants to contradict instead of listen. There is no one who will mediate this. That is why I am leaving Gather. I am giving it up to go where there is a fair work environment. Besides, I have a deadline to meet for my fourth book, and it is much more important then arguing with people over who is right or wrong.

Think of all the fun Bill's going to have writing his commentary comments about this article. At least he gets the delicious points from this thread!

I have a deadline to meet for my fourth book, and it is much more important then arguing with people over who is right or wrong.

Don't let the purple horseshoes hit you in the ass on the way out.

Why poor Bill, Donna. This is his second article on the topic and he implicated some of us in the first. And he joined in the fun after it passed 100 comments.

Sometimes I think Bill writes articles and launches them the same way my husband used to go "percussion fishing" years ago with M80s. It's a good thing he has a sense of humor. Actually, it's a good thing when *anyone* has a sense of humor...

Sandy, I stand corrected, my bad, didn't know that. Screw Bill. (sarcasm bill).

Wow... how cool. My tenth novel has the word Horseshoe in the title (no joke, Johnny)

"Don't let the purple horseshoes hit you in the ass on the way out."

My favorite comment EVER!!!

Paranoia, Jackie.

Audrey, did you notice BOTH of them left out the 'e'?

So Sandy promises to avoid being overly critical, Jill promises to cancel her complaint and give Gather one mote try, and everybody goes back to lighthearted glib gab. What's I not gettin ?

I have some extra Es if you need them, Sandy.

Sandy, does it also have hearts, moons, stars and clovers? 'Cause if so...I will sue you.

Got a problem? Odds against you? Call the Equalizer.

I too tried to ask #1 Mom some questions about her articles, but I never received answers. She became very defensive and insisted that she had answered the questions already. She hadn't. And then she pulled her articles.

And it wasn't just #1 Mom- I replied to a number of people who had posted erroneous or poorly supported inflammatory statements about CPS- not because I took issue with any one person, but because I wanted to debate the actual ISSUE. There is a difference. Not if you're a zealot, I guess- I forgot that zealots internalize their beliefs to such an extent as to believe that an attack upon the idea is an attack upon them.

The series of CPS articles were starting up when I first arrived. The 'recent articles' page was clogged with them. My interest was piqued because I've had experience in parental termination proceedings, and I've seen another side of the story. I had something to say, and I wasn't aware that #1 Mom welcomed only the comments of those who agreed with her.

I'm not sure how the comments of a couple of individuals who happen to be 'connected' on Gather translates into her perception of being actively hunted down by a "gang"... but whatever.

Well I have had my say, so now I will get to my real work. And before you ask, there is less than 75 days until election, and I work for a political candidate. So I have REAL WORK to do. You all just sit here and talk about others all you want.

If I remember correctly, Jackie, there were over twenty published within a twenty-four hour period. Pretty hard to 'not see'. And will you represent me when Mom and Johnny sue me. Dang, I hate court, hope those other lawsuits are out of the way by then.

Dannielle, thanks for the E's.

Sandy Knaur is phoney and an intoler runt.

Jackie, now you know that's not true. I just happen to have my response to you right here, and I will post it for you.

Jackie, I will try to answer each of your points.

My response when I hear about the incidence of parents who kill their own children is that first it is not more prevalent at all. Yes, it does happen and it is a sad state of the world. I wish it were the case that these people could have gotten the help they needed before it reached this terrible outcome. However, CPS does not help parents when they need it. They wait too long to supply that help and it sadly reaches this point.

This help to families in need, was the reason the Social Services System was set up originally. However, they are neglecting that part of their jobs, and simply waiting until it is too late to be an advantage to families who need those services; which would have deterred the occurrences that it led to. It costs them money to give families in need the help they deserve. It makes them money to take a child and use the federal funding they can apply for.

Due to numerous false allegations made by disgruntled ex-spouses, neighbors etc etc, which by law must be investigated within 24 hours of the report, CPS workers are so overloaded with cases, they cannot do their jobs properly. This is another reason I wish the laws of anonymous reporting were changed. However this also would tie the hands of those who wanted to help a child who really did need. It can go either way.

A CPS worker has the right to investigate and take any child that they feel is in "imminent danger". If they decide that they child is not, they leave the child in the home. Foster care is for those children and a good system it is. However, the foster home is only as good as the investigation that led to them getting the license to be one.

Social Services have in the last four years advertised to get more Foster Families and were given a great deal of Federal Funding to do so. In order for them to continue to get more funding each consecutive year, they had to "use up" the funding from the previous year. This is when they began taking children for less and less true reasons. They also started getting very lax on their requirements in order to have families for all those kids they were taking. This was the case in the family of this article.

Last January this family applied and got a State funded Day Care Facility License and then once approved applied for and got a Foster Care license. In late Feb. or early March, they found out that the father was Bi-polar and occasionally had gone off his meds and had "episodes" that would be a detriment to that license. Then they learned that the mother had a heart condition. WHY would they not take that license away right then? Because they already had too many foster kids in the home and didn't have anywhere else to put them.

The boy's biological father was "missing in action" somewhere, and the bio mom had gone to Social Services and asked for help. She was trying to get her life together after he deserted them, and needed assistance with her child who was developmentally challenged. Instead of getting the mom the help she needed, they took the child away from her and put him in this foster home. It wasn't one full week that the foster parents locked that boy in a closet and went on a two day trip over 125 miles away to a family reunion.

When the CPS worker went to that house, and the Foster mom said the boy was sick, she should have said, "I don't care. It is my job to see this child as I am responsible for his care and safety." She didn't!

Just days later the foster mom got on TV and spewed out garbage to the public begging for the return of the boy-knowing full well, that her husband had burned that poor child's body.

Yes, I agree with you that in any activity that requires human judgment; there is inherent risk of error. Humans are fallible. However, if it had been you or I, we would have been prosecuted and our child taken away. However the Qualified Immunity that CPS workers have has been an evident deterrent to keeping them on their toes and doing the jobs they were hired to do-which is to protect children.

It is not a "crazy government conspiracy", it is a crazy CPS conspiracy. And yes, it all stems from funding that they get to take these children. Remember, they don't make as much money by helping the bio parents as they do by making foster kids and the need for more funding to care for them. Did you know that each child they take is worth about $2000 a month, add another $2000 if they are mentally or emotionally challenged. Then add another $4000 if they are physically challenged. Why couldn't they give just part of that to the Bio parents to help them with the needs they have for that child. Because it would cost them money.

When I first began studying this, I couldn't believe it either. Then I talked to one family, then another and another, until I found all that I have said to be true. It has taken me years of research to find out all I know to date. It shocks me more than you will ever understand unless you have done the amount of research I have done.

Oh, god, this is too crazy. Sandy is not a villian here. This Number 1 Mom chickie has written some really bizarre stuff about DYS taken children out of schools and putting them in abusive foster homes. Sandy asked for statistics, No. 1 Mom started ranting about people "attacking" her.
What she wrote was idiocy; her arguments were idiocy; her defenders were trying hard to be kind.
The woman is, in technical terms, bonkers.

Anybody checked out Silly M.?

Sandy Knauer, you'd better get settled in for the night. Don't turn on any lights and don't answer the phone or the door, even if it's someone who says they're me.

All I was able to discern from Silly's few comments, Sandy, is that it has a crush on somebody named "Johnny".

The only problem, Jill, is that you fail to include my posts, so your answers are completely out of context and offer no illumination on the issue.

I know that you don't have any answers to my questions, so don't worry about C&Ping any more of your replies.

No I didn't, but you can tell everyone that if you want. I copied your first post, answered each one and pasted this back. GOOD NIGHT! I have work to do.

Jill, would that be the REAL WORK from whence you rake in the mad cash?

IT'S A TRICK, NOBODY MOVE!

Yeah, but I thought she quit?????????????????????????

Sorry, Sandy, you'll have to find someone else to bully now.

And too bad she didn't just leave her articles up, so others could evaluate for themselves whether or not Jill was being attacked by a gang.

Metroville-Right now I have 75 days until the election. I am contracted to work with a candidate who is up for election. I do various jobs in that office, and research on the internet from home. As a paralegal, I look up Administrative and Case Codes to site on law suits, and other items needed. Like you name, at least one thing made me smile on here tonight. Good night.

And too bad she didn't just leave her articles up, so others could evaluate for themselves whether or not Jill was being attacked by a gang.

It is my experience that the real bullies around here often delete their articles to remove all evidence.

If you were a paralegal, you'd know that it's "cite" rather than "site," "in" rather than "on," and "law suits" is one word- "lawsuits."

I'm having Karissa flashbacks. Karissa, who was also a CPS conspiracy theorist, and also a paralegal.

But of course, Sandy.

Jackie, you took all the fun.

Voc Rehab wants to send me to law school. Does that count?

I've never understood why people go for the fake "I'm a paralegal" bit. Why not go straight to "I'm a lawyer"??

I'm an astronaut.

I fell asleep in a room where there were some law books on a shelf, so I became a Paranormal Legal though astral projectional research.

ohhhh... where's Stephanie when we want her?

I'm a Stephanie

I'm an leprechaun astronaut lawyer.

Bet your not real busy

Wait -- I sense a case brewing, involving Elvis and the Loch Ness Monster... duty calls...

If I call you a showoff, are you going to change your name?

Back on topic, is a person who stands up to subtle bullies (the in suits type) also a bully?

Jackie, people don't say "I'm a lawyer" because that is like dissing yourself. (grin)

Yeah, there's just not much business out there for leprechaun astronaut lawyers- kind of a specialty practice. I'm thinking I'm going to change my practice to Gather member lawsuits. It seems that that's where all the money is.

Oooouch, Donna! You have pierced my very heart! My blackened, shriveled heart!

Jackie, sue me.

Apparently, Bill is available to discuss my version of 'making the bully visible', so I have an empty comment thread HERE IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION

I'm too busy with my leprechaun astronaut practice right now.

If you people continue to behave like this you all should go out in the yard and live off of worms for awhile. At least have the courtesy to #1 apologize #2 mean it; and get a life worthy of the dignity I want to give you.

And gish, just go back and read poor Bill's article again. And try commenting on something worthy of comment.

Sandy, isn't that Voc Rehab the one from the Welfare Department?

And Jackie, If you were a paralegal, you'd know that it's "cite" rather than "site," "in" rather than "on," and "law suits" is one word- "lawsuits." I'm having Karissa flashbacks. Karissa, who was also a CPS conspiracy theorist, and also a paralegal.

You are right, I typed the s instead of c. I guess I am just tired plus just getting used to this smaller keyboard on my new laptop. Plus my hand slips on the space key so sue me for my typo's. I am the only one who gets slammed for those around here too.

And don't start on Karissa. You all lambasted her so bad that she quit trying to talk to you closed minded people too. I guess that is just the effect you have on people.

Isn't that they same day you started associating us with Nazi's? Ahhh yes, now I remember…guess you are no so sweet after all. Must be nice to call people terrible names and conveniently forget, yet remember each little typo someone else makes.

Apologize? For what? Bill, I'm sorry I hijacked your thread. Please accept the bazillion points you made off of me as compensation for my rudeness.

Live off worms? I'm stumped. Are we birds? Is that bad?

Jill, I was not pointing out your spelling errors for the sake of doing so, I was demonstrating the unlikelihood of you being employed as a paralegal.

I don't remember anyone calling you a Nazi. Can you point to a comment where I (or anyone who has disputed your claims re: CPS) called you a Nazi? I know I did not.

Convenient memory lapses. Bet Sandy remembers...but then again maybe she won't either. hahaha

What's really convenient is that the primary sources are all deleted. If they weren't, it would be very easy to check.

Karissa, who also claimed to be a paralegal and posted several CPS conspiracy articles that were cut and paste and/or plagiariged from elsewhere, is a proud White Nationalist who quotes on one of her various sites (with an "s") elsewhere:

"I am a 50 year old white_nationalist lady with a Christian-Catholic Identity. I am a Proud Member of The NCP. "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children""

She has since removed most of her content. I think that's how all the Nazi talk got started.

Well you're a good detective Janna! Thanks for clearing that up.

The point I was making before everyone conveniently changed the subject again was that I am sick of being put down by others. Since I told my connections that I was closing the groups, I have gotten over 50 mails asking me to stay. When I told them why each has confirmed what I am saying about this gang over here that just wants to put others down regardless of what they write about.
I have removed names in order not to give the slammers ammunition and someone else to lambaste, but here are just a few that agree that Sandy and her slamming buddies really do to people exactly as I have said.
It just goes to prove what I am claiming is true.


>>I really hope you'll reconsider leaving, as you post a lot of great, helpful content, and I will be glad to tell anyone who needs to know. There are people who go through situations who really need a place to turn, and I think your articles have really helped in showing them that they are not alone, and that we can stand together and speak out.

My best wishes and prayers are coming your way... you are a strong woman, and you help many others and are appreciated.

>> I would not let this person even come close to bothering you. You should speak your mind and let the moronic replies roll off your back. However, I am not a person to give anyone advice. I hope you'll stick around.

>I WISH YOU WOULD DECIDE TO stay even if it ment re joining with a different user name or changing your id, whichever is possible.
> > I dont want the decent people to leave !!!

>>Sorry to hear you are leaving. I just got a email from C…. she's going through some of the same stuff with this group. I guess the Jerk attack is happening here at Gather. Sad !

>>Hi, I am very sorry you are getting these unwanted notes. I am not one of them. I believe in what you are trying to do and can only apologize for the morons who do not.


>>I am new to Gather, but I noticed this happening quite a bit. It is quite humiliting when someone [especially someone from Gather] would imply you are inferior to them.

Gather is a place to share ideas and communicate with likeminded people. Please don't be intimidated by people who would like to sling hate. We are all better than that. Well, at least I hope most of us are.

>>look, i think you should reconsider!!
there are a few bad apples on gather but on the whole ,most people are great and it would be silly to quit because then you would be giving her the satisfaction, don't !

>
you predicted her fans would follow her as in the past, of course they did
they just went on and on

> I haven't read much of you, but am familiar with the quality of your work. Sandy is a prime example of everything you say she is.

>
> She pestered me for months. She was partly responsible for Maureen's leaving, in late June.
>
> I've had my share, or more than my share of abuse heaped upon me since Many by Sandy and her gang. I've stayed. Eventually, they left me alone.

Janna, run back over there and see who posted the word Nazi?