I lost my connection to organized religion the day after my Bar Mitzvah 30 years ago. Since then, I have lived life as an atheist. A comment by Richard McGirr, creator of the Happy Atheists group on Gather.com, got me thinking. Richard said "Parenting as an atheist is a real challenge". I had often thought about this over the years. This brief article will examine my path as an atheist and hopefully spur a discussion of this interesting topic.
At the urging of Cyndi, my wife who passed away just over a year ago, we had attempted to reconnect with religion a couple of times. Her objectives were more social then anything else. You see, as people without a religion we were missing the social aspects that come with belonging to an organized religion or place or worship. We didn't know how or where to meet interesting people both for our daughter and for ourselves. Our friends were limited to ex-coworkers or people we met through support groups for Cyndi's illness or neighbors. We were suffering from the lack of venues for meeting new people.
Cyndi was not raised in any specific religion. When we first met she considered herself generic Christian although I never heard her use the term Jesus Christ. She did sometimes speak of God. I was always fond of openly questioning religion, God, and related issues. In fact, I could be a bit of an ass about it prompting argument purposefully. But the birth of our daughter in 1990 caused us to put our arguments aside and consider the best interests of the baby. I still argued that the best interests of the baby were to stay away from the hypocrisy of organized religion, but eventually I relaxed my objections.
I was raised Jewish. My parents were not particularly religious, but they wanted to offer me the choice. They also had to deal with the hopes and desires of their parents, who were more religious. The most religious person in the family was my dad's dad. Interestingly, he was born Catholic and converted when he fell in love with a Polish Jewish woman. He took his newfound Jewish-ness seriously and went to semi-orthodox services in Queens where he lived. I went with him sometimes as a young boy. I am always interested in new human experiences, even when I was young, so I enjoyed accompanying him, but decidedly did not like the "rules" he was forced to follow.
My new wife began studying Judaism after we got together. Not studying in a formal sense, but she began reading and researching and talking to my mother. My mom and dad treated Judaism as more of a cultural or social aspect then a religion. Cyndi eventually asked me to join a liberal temple and attend Hebrew lessons with her. I was able to read and say Hebrew back from my pre-Bar Mitzvah training, so it came easy to me. We did enjoy the social aspects. We began attending services occasionally. This is where my problem with religion resurfaced.
Every time I heard the term "the chosen people" in Jewish prayer I would cringe. I do not believe any group is better then any other, or that any group has been chosen. This was important to me. I did not want to teach this kind of separatism. I found many liberal Jews had similar concerns about the wording. I began fighting the participation in religion vigorously again. When the temple in San Jose, CA we had recently sent our daughter to Sunday school was vandalized with hate messages, I became concerned for safety and withdrew completely. That was cowardice and given my anti-separatist beliefs should have caused me to renew my commitment to this temple. In hindsight I am sad about that, but this temple was not particularly liberal and did not have the right message in my mind.
Many years later we attended a Universal Unitarian service. I liked this a lot. I am not sure why this didn't stick with us. I guess it was still a little God focused, although their God was not a separatist and I had so much in common with the people attending. I guess I never put religion high on my priority list. To this day that brief experience is one of my only positive religious experiences.
I know many people use their religion for much more then a social club. They seek moral guidance. Personally, I have never had any need for someone to teach me morals. My parents raised me to think for myself, and I feel I have led a good life. I have made mistakes no doubt. But I also have tremendous pride for the things that I have done that are good. Likewise, my daughter, now 16, seems to have a solid moral compass. I really believe active parenting is more important then organized religion in teaching a child to understand right and wrong.
I have not had a chance to study the beliefs of other religions around the world that I find interesting. From the little I know there are some belief systems that seem to offer some hope of improving your life. Eastern religions come to mind. At this point in my life I am not searching for salvation or anything like that, I only wish to improve myself, grow, and share positive energy with people. Love is the only religion that I am faithful to.
So this little tale gives you a quick view of my deviation from the religion of my birth. The topic I would like to discuss is how others have ended up where they are. I am interested in how other parents have dealt with the issues of not having a church to "belong to". I invite not only other atheists, but members of any religion to join in this discussion. I am truly after enlightenment in whatever form it takes.
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Comments: 46
great article, makes you think about your own life
Mandi, Thanks. Cyndi lived a very full and happy life.
I need to tell you that many religions are not separatist. I, personally, believe that one group is never "better" than another. I also believe that you owe it to yourself to do more research. Asking questions here is a wonderful step.
I brought my children up to know the difference bewteen good and evil, and that included bringing them to churches of various religions. When they were old enough to start building their own path, I encouraged it. It would be nice if they chose the same denomination that I did - the same church would be even nicer! However, the truly important (and, in my opinion, Christian) thing to have taught them is to figure it out for themselves while staying faithful to "goodness."
I greatly appreciate your comment and respect your point of view. I agree I owe it to myself to do more research. I am always looking for answers and asking questions, even when I know there may be no answer to my questions.
My father persuaded me to leave the church by offering me a chance to play Monopoly and go out for ice cream or I could go to CCD class. He didn't like how I was pointing out all of his sins.
Then late in life, while attempting to come out of a long depressive mid life crisis, God and I got together. Via that personal experience I got a glimpse of Love that could never be imagined and found myself truly Spiritual...I then studied for years all about every aspect of religions, spirituality, etc, etc, etc...all to better understand what had happened to me out of the blue. I now believe I know what I need to know about it all, and have even written a book about as my fulfillment of what I call my spiritual mission to 'tell others'.
I have developed a website to offer for free download or purchase. Anyone interested check out SPIRIT CALLS...
Amen, brother
I am a quasi-agnostic secular jew - but i still do read torah in hebrew but my motivation tends to be related more to wanting to maintain my proficiency with the language, and ties to the culture. My parents have always been very liberal about bringing their children up being most concerned with developing open, humanist children than good jews destined for yeshiva.
PS: Your still a member of the chosen people. :-)
An Appeal for Secularism:
http://www.gather.com/gather/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976749222
What a brain washing idea, and a path to pacify humanity.
All organized religions are 501 C3, government sponsed.
Here is fundamentally how organized religion works, it theatens you with hell, and the government threatens you prison.
What a life, if you do not obey to the churches will.
Organized religion, is no more than an every busines, just another collection agency, busines as usual.
lancelote
You have read me right. I seek answers to the things that puzzle me. Sometimes I find the answers, often I don't.
As Diana pointed out above, I think Cyndi may have been subtly asking me to help her search for God. There is an element of guilt that I did not help her with that, and worse, I mostly fought it. But I gave her love, the best love I could give, and it helped her. So although I feel some guilt at not seeing that she may have asking for spiritual guidance, I know that I was good to her and that is what matters.
One thing that troubles me about God: if such a spirit exists, why would it remove Cyndi from us? She was such a kind and charitable person. She was a good mother. She was helping families resolve serious issues. She was raising guide dogs to help a total stranger.
Liz, as always I appreciate your comments. Thanks.
I actually saw God once, while I was tripping on acid. I was listening to Pete Townshend, looking at the album cover, and suddenly God broke through and talked to me. I figured this was my chance to ask "him" ("he" was actually a blinding white light) a question, so I said, "God, why is there evil in the world." And he replied, "So that there may be the opportunity for good, since there can be no good without evil. It is all perfect. Relax."
I'm actually not kidding about that, but I tell people I am so that they won't think I'm psychotic.
Gotta love the Unitarian/Universalists. I was one for quite some time. The church was mostly comprised of recovering Catholics, Jews who were married to non-Jews and looking for a compromise, and gay people (some of whom belonged to the other two groups as well, obviously), seeing as how the UUs were doing weddings and commitment services for gay couples decades ago. We had a lot of atheists in our congregation as well as theists.
Good luck in your search, and I am very sorry about your wife.
Bertrand Russel had difficulty to call himself an Atheist or an Agnostic. When he was sent to prison for his anti-war activities during the World War I, he stated "Agnostic" to the jail official for filling the detail against the religion column in the admission form. The jail official recorded it without a fuss and commented with an understanding smile, "There are so many religions in the world; but, I think, they all believe in the same God." The jailer's remarks kept Bertrand Russel amused during his dreary days in the prison.
I started thinking about these things as a kid, because I was raised in a solidly Jewish household (albeit americanized, not orthodox). As a college student, I explored various eastern traditions, along with native american practices, etc. I came to the conclusion that this endeavor could overtake my life. I realized I could study all my life to know a tiny bit about many religions or potentially delve deeply into the mystical aspects of just one. Believing like Liz that there are so many roads up the mountain, I figured I'd dance with the one that brung me - Judaism - because I had a head start. Consequently, I've studied a lot, have been more and less observant at different points of my life, and have developed a "relationship with God" (which I consider a matter of choice since there's no proof available). I have experienced a number of interesting spiritual
"events" (maybe projection, self-delusion, who knows? who cares?).
I think under different circumstances (a discussion, not a monologue) it would be easier to share these experiences, but here I will suffice myself with a couple of comments. First, about the "chosen" thing. You've likely heard, but if not let me mention, that there is nothing elitist about "chosenness" from a biblical perspective. Pretty much, chosenness means that we are expected to exhibit more restraint over our behavior, to execute more "positive rules" and refrain from a zillion negative behaviors (in all 613 rules that are sometimes meritorious and sometimes maddeningly obscure). Interestingly, midrash (stories) claim that, rather than God choosing us, we supposedly took this "yoke of Torah" upon ourselves. The midrash goes that God offered this set of rules around, and we were the only group (dumb enough) to take it. For our commitment, we've had nothing but trouble. More humorously put, Tevya, in Fiddler on the Roof, asks God, "I know we are the Chosen People, but once in awhile can't you choose someone else?"
Also, I will point out, there is nothing in the Torah or any writing since that tries to shine up the foibles of our ancestors. Although we have a couple of guys who earned big brownie points (e.g. Moses, Abraham), our most meritous forefathers and mothers all were intensely human beings who stole, lied, and mistreated along with all the good and noble things they did. Patriarch Abraham cast out his second wife Hagar and their son to what he believed would be a slow, certain death in the desert in one breath (her sin was to bear a son who inconveniently still existed when Sarah finally gave birth to a son), while arguing with God to save the immoral inhabitants of Sodom and Gemorrah in another. Patriarch Jacob lied to his father and tricked both his brother and father-in-law. Matriarch Rachel stole her father's belongings when she left his household with Jacob. Both Abraham and Isaac tried to pawn their wives off as sisters when traveling to Egypt, even though it put their wives in danger. I could go on, but I think my point has been made. Chosenness doesn't mean "better than," no matter how some Jews and non-Jews have interpreted it over the years. It's unfortunate that the word "chosen" has the connotations it does.
Anyway, it feels somewhat defensive to explain chosenness." I wish it was easier to tell my personal stories of enlightenment, sacred occurances, events I can't interpret as anything other than God's presence in my life. Those are the stories I so prefer to tell... but this is a hard forum to share such things.
I guess I could talk a little bit about the last point you made, Rich - how a God could possibly steal away the ones we cherish under the guise of tragic illness - notto mention the other seemingly senseless, tragic things He "lets" (makes?) happen. Mystical Judaism says that God has infinite faces or facets. The totality of this multi-faceted God is named the Ein Sof, or "No Thing" (sort of zen-ish). The Ein Sof encompasses all things and also is no "thing," beyond our human comprehension (boy am I short-cutting this). Two other facets of God are Justice and Mercy. There are infinite faces, but I want to deal with just these two for a moment. Justice is the creative force and also the destructive force. It is called Justice because it is blind. It is the power that begets and also that destroys. We see the beauty of this Divine facet in birth and in nature's most moving gifts to us. We see the terror of this Divine face in the tsunamic (if that's a word) power of the sea, the abrupt movements of the earth. This creative/destructive force acknowledges no human in its path. The mystics would put cancer and other disease as manifestations of this "face" of God.
However, the mystics believe there is also a face of Mercy that God turns toward we humans. This is also the facet of God that we turn toward in prayer, the intervening God who through the occasional miracle chooses to mitigate the destructive impact of man or nature. Ok, I will tell you one personal story - just one of many - about a time the face of Mercy was turned toward my family.
My daughter, now a beautiful 21 year old, was an extremely troubled adolescent with strong suicidal tendencies. I will not go into the situation that brought her to that point but suffice it to say I was so frightened for her that I quit my job to be able to watch her night and day. Then 14, my daughter was so emotionally void and empty that she could barely raise herself from bed each day to go to school. One Wednesday morning I went in wake her and realized she was in particularly bad shape. I racked my brain for anything to shift what I saw as another life-threatening downhill spiral. I offered her a deal. Although I'd never done anything like this before, I told her that I could see that she needed a break from school, and that I would grant her not one, but two full "mental health vacation" days off if she would promise me to participate in an audition for the annual school play that was being held Friday afternoon (You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown). She'd participated in some theater before, but she was so depressed that she'd previously and firmly dismissed the idea of the audition cold. However, the relief of not having to face school in her condition was palpable and she agreed to my terms. On Friday, she attended school and made good on her promise. The following Tuesday, we got word that she'd been given the lead female role of Lucy. That was the first time I'd seen her smile in months. For four blessed months she was occupied with something that she loved, and the suicidal behavior recessed. The rehearsals were so energizing that it turned her around in a way that no therapy could have. I can honestly say that it may have saved her life. As I said, I see believing in God as a "choice," and I choose to believe that the God of Mercy was in that casting room, and was merciful with my daughter. To this day I believe it.
Why would this God show the face of Mercy to my daughter but not to Cyndi? This is a question I sadly have no answer for. All I can say is that life is a journey, and death is part of that journey. Mystics say that the experiences we have along the way are the sand paper that shapes our souls. Souls, if you choose to believe in them, are supposedly not bound by the confines of the material world. So perhaps one explanation might be that Cyndi's death serves some purpose for her soul (and yours?) that we can't yet perceive, limited as our mortal vision is. As you can see, I am very tentative about any of this. I am simply a seeker, seeking insight into the mysterious phenomena of life. These are my thoughts on an early Tuesday morning when I ought to be sleeping.
I don't mind anything you want to say. I am eating it all up. This is great. This thread has exceeded my expectations.
I was joking about the job thing. There is no atheist oath. In fact, I never really considered myself an atheist until recently. I think agnostic might be a more accurate term. I am skeptical. I can't say I am 100% convinced there is no such thing as God. I have a certain kind of spiriruality of my own. My belief is something along the lines that the spirit that people think of as an entity is actually within the human soul. I don't know of any religion that believes this, but I suspect there are religions that believe the good is buried in us all.
Yes. I am looking for a job. I'm a technology exec. I moved here to Boston-area for love. The love is beautiful and I am glad I am here. Now I need to find a fulfulling job and everythign about the move will be good. Well, as long as my teenage daughter is happy in the new high school she will attend. But she is a happy, optimistic person so I am confident she will do great here.
Thanks agan. And to all I haven't commented on yet, know that I have read your comments and I am deeply moved and honored to receive them.
To Elise, your story is very moving. I commented on your piercing this morning. I love your relatonship with your daughter. I, too, have an amazing relationship with my daughter. I have written about it elsewhere here on Gather.
After that, my dhildren became less interested, and so did I. When I became a Catholic it was at the Paulist Center in Boston, which is run by the Jesuits and is outside of the Parish structure. Most of the members are very liberal. I ceased going to the Paulist Center for a while and went to my local parish, which was more Republican than Democrat. After a while, my reasons for joining (so I could be a Catholic in my own way) seemed that it was not going to work. I enjoyed Choir, as the songs are beautiful. I enjoy the Gospel and Christ's teachings. I am in no way a literalist. I do not consider my sefl an atheist, per se, as Atheism can be a dogma, like any other. I leave it up to the individual to decide whether God exists or not. To me, God exists within ourselves, it is a universal human characteristic and a necessary one to try to make sense out of the unknowable. Christ was a prescient and gifted man and wise. He was human.
I do read Scripture from time to time, but no longer attend Mass.
if religion means belief then, this is my belief...and my spirtuality doesn't fix in any of the religious boxes out there. I am not a church goer; too boring to listen around me to what they say " in there". Too boring to hear the priests reciting from the so called bible and word of god...and god speaking through them and " them" having fatter and fatter pockets full of money and seeing e/thing only through their doctrine.
For me god is everywhere, even in the sea I love so much! and donot need to be part of a religion in order to care for others, to love and let love touch me, to live in the light! Ibetter prefer to ask forgivenes from those I have wronged; to those I may have helped I wish I could have done more and to those who helped me, to say THANK YOU. this is my religion.
love and light to you
I am more of a spiritual person than religious. I do believe there is a higher being and that we are all connected and have this higher being within us. While I feel like I have a connection to this "other world," I do not go to church because I have been turned off by the politics of organized religion. My main focus is to try to be the best person I can be, to love selflessly, and to learn from my mistakes.
I'm glad you wrote this article because there are many interesting comments and views to read and it's especially pleasing to see no negative comments or bashing!
I loved Cyndi and took good care of her, and she me, and together of our daughter. So you are all right, I have no need for guilt. Then I feel guilty that just weeks after her passing I could have feelings for another woman, although I had been silently grieving for Cyndi for years as she was clearly slipping away. And although I hadn't seen Sue in over two decades, we were just email platonic long distance friends with families of our own, I did have a head start since I had been in love with her as a teenager. The thing I come back to is I was faithful to my wife, Sue was faithful to her husband, I made Cyndi happy and intended to spend every day of my life with her as long as we were alive. So I don't know why I feel there is a timeline for approrpriateness of a new relationship. It happens when it happens. Sue's divorce coming the same month as Cyndi's death and our decision to visit with each other to commiserate after 22 years and a 3000 mile separation appears to be the hand of fate. Either way, my guilt is small when compared to the pride I have. Pride for my deeds as husband, pride as my deeds as a father, pride for my deeds as Sue's high school boyfriend and later as adult penpals with families of our own. I am proud of how I sat with her ex-husband, his parents, Sue and my daughter Jackie tonight to watch Sue's middle son play his last baseball game of his regular season. So pride outweighs guilt for me--always.
i find my spirituality in nature. it calls to me, soothes me, makes me think. something is happening there, with me. i love it.
i am freaked out by organized religions. seems that most preach hate. we live in a very conservative christian community. i can't wait to move. sigh.
thank you for starting this. i have a feeling i'll be thinking of it for a long time.
I'm assuming you mean the experience of talking to God, not the experience of doing acid in general?
The experience (and, more generally, all of my experiences on acid) convinced me that there is a higher power of some sort, and there is a reality that we never see, never appreciate, because we're always into our heads, so to speak, unable to really connect with the universe. Even though I haven't done acid in decades, I still occasionally manage to shut up my mind enough to actually LOOK at the world, and I'm always amazed by how much remains unseen to me, because I'm so busy and anxiety-ridden.
So I guess I just "got" that the universe, and our relationship to a higher power, is a lot more complex than we would like it to be. We are like little children, spiritually. We beg God for favors -- as if he/she/it cares! Not that we aren't "loved," if that's a good word, but that our concerns are so small, not at all the concerns of the creator of the universe.
Someone once likened this to God as a parent and us as kids going outside to play cops and robbers. During the game of cops and robbers, there's battling going on, people get "killed," but the parent doesn't get upset when the cop or the robber bites the dust. The parent loves the kids and delights in their playing. The parent knows it is a game, enveloped in a more profound reality.
Pete Townshend, in his album "Who Came First," wrote a song based on a prayer by his guru, Meher Baba. In that song, god is described as "the beyond, beyond the beyond beyond, unknowable by our minds and hearts." I guess that describes my philosophy.
We're basically very small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but we have a choice.
Interestingly, when my son was born, he was a "spiritual being" from the very start. The doctor who delivered him said "this one's been around a couple of times" -- on the reincarnation wheel. Another nurse told me that he would be what Scottish midwives considered an "old soul" -- again, someone who's been around for a few turns of the wheel. Anyway, from the time he was three or four, he referred to god as "she." He was never prompted to do that -- indeed, we didn't do much god talk around the house. He was just very clear on the "fact" that God was a female being. He grew up to be a pagan, then grew out of the limitations of that and struggled for a while to discover some new spirituality. We went to a African-American Baptist Church once. After the service, he said, "You know, I can't buy into the whole Christian thing, but there was a lot of gratitude in the air there, and I think that anywhere there's gratitude, that's where God is present."
So I guess I think, the world is perfect (which is to say "lacking nothing" as opposed to "perfectly good"), we can't say anything with any assurance about who or what God is, but we can make stuff up that works for us, and that "gratitude" is a form of prayer.
It's interesting that for many Americans, there are social difficulties in being an atheist. I don't know a single person who is openly religious, and/or is practising a certain religion. Here in Sweden, if you meet someone who's really religious, that's even a little unusual. It's not that we're all die-hard atheists, but religion and church usually plays a minor- or no role in the average Swede's daily life. We tend to keep our spiritual lives and thoughts much more private than Americans, I think. And I can't say I envy you in this particular matter.
I truly enjoyed this article, thanks!
The reason I quit the Catholic church is: it is a very authoritive religion and they treat a subjective area (spirituality) as it were objective. Although I must admit some of the Priests I knew were very liberal. One of the priests said the church's position on birth control is asinine.
I attended several churchs which were much more liberal and I enjoyed them. Church Unity was one I attended and they introduced me to meditation. Currently I seek God and the nature of God through meditation. Meditation has seemed to satisfy my spiritual needs.
Very well said!
"Take what you want, and leave the rest," as Sylvia Browne says.
I don't know what "God" is, but I do know that "God' never had a monopoly on spirituality. Spirare, the Latin root word, means "to breathe." If you can't breathe within a religion, it ain't spiritual. :) Nice to meet you.
Warm regards,
Carol