On a night flight to Mexico recently, I heard soft voices in Spanish and English and I thought about how they all seemed to blend together. It occurred to me to wonder, in the midst of all the language debate in this country, what kind of a statement it would make if Mexico were to make Spanish its official language. It seemed fitting somehow, a reciprocal action to what so many want to see here. By the time we landed in Mexico City I had forgotten about it, but the question would come back to me.
Our expatriate friends met us at the airport and ushered us through the process of finding a safe and reasonable taxi to the hotel they had reserved for my wife and I. They were our first Spanish teachers fifteen years ago and they had retired to Mexico both because they are fascinated by the country and because they could make their retirement money stretch farther there. Not only are they both quite fluent in Spanish but they had also lived in Mexico for periods of time, especially in the Michoacan city of Pátzcuaro where they now lived and which would be our destination.
The bus ride to Pátzcuaro lasted about six hours, a long spell to sit but the view as we passed in and out of mountains was great while the sense of being in another culture was overwhelming. Although I teach Spanish, there were many unfamiliar words on signs and the traffic had a different feel altogether, a sensation of being very, very close to every other vehicle. The buses are comfortable but movies blare in English with Spanish subtitles, so I didn't feel inclined to start a conversation with anyone across the aisle from me.
It's really fun to have the excuse of wanting to show one's students Mexican culture when one sets out to record a trip on video. I managed to do a number of small interviews with various artisans in their shops, but the question of the official language stayed in the background while I learned that the native Indians of the area still speak Purhépecha, a pre-Columbian language which has undergone a bit of a revival lately; there are now several bilingual radio stations in the area featuring it. I was told that it is a great feat to master it and I presume that like many ancient languages, it is more complex than our modern ones, as Guy Deutscher explains in his fascinating book The Unfolding of Languages. It was comforting to know the Spanish Conquest had not wiped out the language, even though they had called the natives and their language Tarascan. Perhaps they could not pronounce the Indian names, but huge numbers of them remain in Mexico, such as the nearby city of Tzintzunzan, which means hummingbird in Purhépecha. Indeed, most of the names of towns and some cities seemed to be something other than Spanish.
On my last day in Pátzcuaro, I had arranged an interview with the local librarian, but she wanted me to talk to the students who were studying there, which was great because I really wanted my students to see and hear from someone their own age. It happened that she introduced me to a group of four of them who were busy with an assignment detailing the native languages of Mexico, and they explained to me that there were originally 55 of them and that 45 are still spoken today. None of them spoke the local language and they said that it was difficult to learn because those who knew it were reluctant to use it in school for fear of being laughed at, but they told me a few words.
I had noticed that there were two real estate offices in the city, Century 21 and ReMax both, and I gathered that their business was mostly with Gringos coming south to buy property in the area. I had also heard complaints that too many of those folks were just not trying to learn any Spanish; they could get by hiring someone who had learned English in the U.S. to translate for them. This is happening in many parts of the country, driving up the price of real estate in many areas, till the locals are priced out.
This really fueled my desire to see how the idea would play of imposing a law requiring such immigrants to learn Spanish, and I tried it out on these four kids. They looked at me like it was a goofy idea. No, it wasn't a big deal, no they weren't worried about the influence of English. They were interested in English; they had been required to study in for years in school. Hearing this I offered to practice a little English with them only to find out that their comprehension is very low. They could neither understand nor respond to simple questions like what is your favorite subject in school or what is your favorite thing to do. They readily told me that they had had very little practice actually speaking the language or listening to it. The only girl in the group wrote down a sentence for me as I was about to depart and asked me to translate it. It said "I love you with my whole heart." When I translated it into "Te amo con el corazón entero" they responded as if I had unlocked a magic riddle.
I was perplexed, for I had heard both complaints about immigrants not learning Spanish and apathy, but mostly I sensed that the whole idea would not easily get off the ground in Mexico. I also felt a little humbled because I had no idea how many native languages there were in the United States before colonization or how many were still alive today; no one had ever mentioned the idea during my schooling Maybe Mexico, being an older country than ours, is somehow aware of its own inherent diversity at a deeper level. They've already had Spanish imposed on them and don't see a need to make it any more dominant than it is. Perhaps the Spanish were not as intent as the British on destroying the native cultures, as long as they were willing to adopt Catholicism.
There is something about being in Mexico and so much enjoying the ability to speak at a high level with people for hours on end that activated some deep sensation for which I do not have clear words. It's a sense of intensity in the mixture of land and people, something almost volcanic, waiting. It was also on this trip that I learned that Mexico is the only third-world country on the planet that borders a first-world country.
Maybe there is something in me that wants Mexico to stand up to the U.S. for once and thumb its nose at us a little, since we stole half of their country in 1848 and have basically walked all over them several times in their history. They may do that someday, but I don't think it will be by rattling their language sabers at us.


Comments: 35
Concerning your desire for Mexico to stand up to the USA, haven't they been doing that with the illegal migration of millions of Mexicans across the border?
You have a valid point, of course, but I guess I meant it in terms of national will. I have heard considerable angst from Mexico about the exodus and how so many small towns are dying as all the young flee north. And how it's not even about economic survival anymore, but also about wanting a richer way of life with more consumption.
While there I also heard complaints about the influence of English upon Spanish. It was something of a revalation for me to find it easy to understand everyone I spoke to there, as opposed to my students from northern Mexican states with a clipped, hurried Spanish I constantly struggle with. As for teaching lanuages, I often wonder what we'd all think if we could somehow add up the collective bitterness of everyone in this country who has studied a language for years only to lose what was memorized and not taken to long-term memory because it was not really taught. I must now expand that thought to include those who study English abroad. Thank you very much for commenting!
But I too have to question how good the education system is over there if they are learning English but don't comprehend the language? Countries much further away, with completely different language systems and with far less American influence are teaching English as a second language quite successfully.
And I do understand about studying a language for years "only to lose what was memorized". I took French for 8 years and lost my ability to speak it because I had no one to speak it with. Working in a call center for years, we received so many calls that required Spanish translation that we needed to set up a separate group to respond. But rarely did a French person ever need that service, because most spoke English quite proficiently.
Anyway, great article and interesting perspective. And I loved the part where you translated that sentence for the young girl and "they responded as if I had unlocked a magic riddle."
I would not say I'm bitter or insensitive but I do have a little different take on immigration I think. However, I do love your broad-minded approach to the problem and your willingness to examine it from all different angles.
I always point out to my students that the U.S. Department of Defense has classified the world's major languages according to difficulty, and English is the only level 5 language on the list. The romance languages like Spanish and French are only level one, far easier. English has drifted so far away from a phonetic system that it has become extremely difficult to learn and regional variations in accent are also intimidating.
I learned my Spanish in a customer service call center, so we share a common experience. Your personal tragedy with French makes me sad--eight years lost! I only had four in high school and college and lost it. I'm working on recovering mine as I now have the opportunity to teach it in an exploratory language class. I'm generally down on language teaching everywhere because I think it does great harm to people and to the world to teach so badly, with so much drill and memorization. Anyway, great comment. I hope you'll tell me more about your perspective.
A wonderful stop, look, and listen article you have here, I strongly urge people on Gather to take a trip south of the border with this article, and get off the tread mill fear factor we are all running as economized citizens! Thanks for the post, don't get discouraged with the lack of comments, Gather is just going through a spell of narcissist weather patters by its members! Christopher
namaste
Your first paragraph is a quotable quote; I think I'll copy it down and make a poster out of it for my school classroom. You've captured my own sense of alternating terror and wonder in language and made me stop and think about the treadmill in my own life. Thank you so much, and you know, my network is really coming through for me as comments start to come in!
English is not the most widely spoken language in the world in terms of the number of native speakers--there are many more Chinese speakers than native English speakers--but Chinese is spoken little outside of Chinese communities, so English is the most widespread language in the world. And as I'm sure you know, it's the major language of international business, diplomacy, and science. In Denmark, Germany, Spain, France, Austria, Finland, Sweden and the Netherlands over 90% of all secondary pupils learn English. But I wasn't aware that it wasn't being taught "well". I was primarily basing my observations on my 15 years of call center experience in an industry that dealt with a worldwide customer base.
So I did a little digging to answer your question and came up with an article that's about 5yrs old, but might shed some light on this subject.
What We Can Learn From Foreign Language Teaching In Other Countries
The article is based on a study that provides valuable insight into successful foreign language education in other countries. But it's really about how students in this country are lagging far behind in their foreign language capabilities as compared to the rest of the world. It also talks about what we can learn by studying the successes in other countries and how we can use that information to implement better foreign language education programs to improve proficiency.
Sobresaliente, lo doy un diez. Te lo agradezco tus observaciones sobre Mexico. Verda . . es un volcan. Porque no monta Vd. un grupo de habla espanol? Seria divertidisimo. El tema de los idiomas perdidos es muy triste y se halla por todo el mundo y se esta acelerando debido a la globalizacion. Un saludo, Carlos.
Muchísimas gracias por su respuesta. Ver algo en español me sorprendió, pero me fascina la idea de un grupo de habla español. ¿Cómo se titularía? ¿En qué se enfocaría? Una cosa más—"Gerry" no me suena bien en español y por eso uso Ignacio o Nacho. Espero su respuesta….
Nacho
And for anyone puzzled by this, Carlos thanked me for my observations about Mexico and suggested that I start a group for Spanish speakers. He also said that the theme of lost languages is sad and a worldwide issue accelerating due to globalization. I told him that the idea of starting such a group is fascinating, but I wonder what it would be called and what it would focus on. And what about those who don't speak Spanish? Would anyone feel left out or otherwise bothered by such a group? I wonder if the foreign language issue has ever come up in this way on Gather before?
What a kind thing for you to invest your time in! I found the article and printed it out to study in more depth. On my first reading it seems to have some good material hidden inside a fair amount of 'eduspeak' but you never know when something like this may lead to a clue that turns my teaching ability in a better direction. Thank you!
haz que el grupo sea "controlado" por invitacion, los objetivos - ejercer el castellano, animar a otros grupos de idiomas, reconocer que el planeta de verdad es multilingual. no me acuerdo haber leido nada en el reglamiento que prohiba el uso de idiomas. el nombre no importa tanto como el imagen, cual debiera ser de Pancho Villa o Zapata o Orizaba, tu decides. en cuanto a los que se sintieran excluidos mis sinceros pesames. animo,
Carlos.
It is there and I have been publishing in Spanish (and Ebglish) for a while. I happen to be a bilingual writer.
Give it a shot. That would be great!!
Dr. Paul
Gerry & I were discussing forming a Spanish Group whose purpose would be to practice Castillian, encourage other language groups, show that planet earth is really a multilingual place, that I don't remember having read any rules that prohibit using languages, that the name isn't as important as the image/ photo which should be Pancho Villa, Zapata or Mt. Orizaba, you decide, and as far as anyone feeling left out goes, my sincere regrets. ~Carlos.
Thanks for sharing your feelings and thoughts on multilingualism in the Americas. I have heard figures as high as 123 mutually unintelligible dialects in Mexico (that may include some that have gone extinct).
Does anyone on this thread know of other linguistic groups on Gather.com? I might be happy to check in on a Português group now and then, and come this fall, I will be interested in a group that is writing in French.
One "editorial" question: Did you mean to say your friends were "expatriates" or "ex-patriots"? -- in my mind, there's a big difference.
I puzzled over that as I wrote it and forgot to check the dictionary, but now that I see it written, I realize that you are right. My friends would get a chuckle out of it anyhow, as both terms may apply. But thanks for the correction. I don't know of any other than Dr. Montesino's which I just found out about. If you find something for a group that writes in French, I would love that even though it would be a huge struggle for my level of French. Maybe we can get Bonnie interested (see her message above). Thanks for your post. I was just going on what the students told me. I wonder how many languages Mexico really did have? If you are right that would mean that over two-thirds of them are gone.
Thanks for publishing your thoughts. This was a great geography lesson; plus it stimulated some quite interesting conversation. What a treat to get these insights into our neighbor to the south's linguistic history!
I am weak on the "official language of..." movement afoot these days, wherever it exists. South of the Rio Grande, it sounds like it could endanger ancient native tongues. On our side of that river - it sends a mixed message. In our border states (and elsewhere) we post signs in languages other than English (we meaning our governing bodies) and we offer immigrants education in languages other than English, yet we declare that English is our "official language." Making this official was a total waste of congressional time, by the way. A command of English is necessary in our country today because most of us use it to communicate. Have a medical emergency? It's gonna be helpful to be able to tell the EMT's or ER personnel what the problem is. Need a home loan? Ditto. At this point I do not see much danger of English falling into disuse in this country very soon.
The learning as well as teaching of a foreign language in the interior districts of a country away from metropolitan cities has several obstacles. I hail from a multilingual background of rural India. After learning English for six years in a rural school I found the course curriculum incomprehensible when switched over the medium of instruction to English in a metropolitan college.
Was Purhépecha the language spoken by the Aztecs? I do believe that the Indians are decendants of the Aztecs so that would make sense. Of course, I could be wrong.
Diana--I love that line. Language is a gift we give to ourselves, an incredibly rewarding one. As with Chris's, could it turn that into a poster?
Tom--I recently heard a public radio commentary where a linguist was visiting some European colleagues whose attitude was "Do you really think that English needs this kind of help in the world?" It is probably not apparent from my article, but I'm pretty fond of English although I find it ugly in comparison to other languages, and certainly fascinating. Seeing it mixed into Spanglish turns my stomach, so I'm not opposed to English being our official language. What really gets me is making such grand symbolic, threatening gestures while ignoring the reality. Here's my version of the reality:
English is a mess and all English speakers know this inherently, because we've all struggled to learn its fine points, and still do every time we sit down to write and spell it. Many of us despise the classes in which we have to study it, which ought to give us a clue. Too many of us speak it badly so we have to watch it decaying around us swiftly even as struggle with the official rules. So where is the official curriculum for the official language anyhow? There is no such animal.
As I studied the material Bonnie sent me (see above) about language teaching in other countries, the most important point is that language is taught better where people are multi-lingual, and we'd all be better English speakers and teachers of it if we were active learners of other languages. I would like to see firm standards for learning English as part of a pathway to citizenship or legal residency in this country, because I agree with you that it's important to the flow of life here, but that involves some deep infrastructure questions and finding capable teachers. The real message behind this "official language" move is "learn it yourself; we all did!" We're generally not very big on paying teachers well in this country. We'd much rather have border wars and fences. Maybe when this one cools down we can redeploy the 'minutemen' as English teachers and see how brave they feel in the face of that task. Summation--we are language hypocrites and too many of us are proving it by moving to Mexico and refusing to learn their much easier language. Too many of us are terrified of learning languages because we've tried with lousy teachers who only made us believe that we weren't good at languages, and that includes our English teachers.
I really enjoyed your comment. I agree that Mexico should take more responsibility for itself. I read a post from someone debating an article on immigration who simply repeated a phrase like "I am not responsible for giving Mexicans work" over and over and over. Well, yes, on the surface of it, it's true, but if you look at the history of the relations between our countries, we are partially responsible for Mexicans not having work. We've done everything from taking half their country to interfering on the side of the rich in the Mexican revolution to sheltering their corrupt politicians when they fled the country to who knows what else, instead of using our support or influence to help them end their corrupt government practices and straighten out the miserable mess they have.
I take it that English was not your first language, but your writing is excellent now. How many years of study did it take you and what were the problems you encountered in moving from one school and teacher to a different level?
Deborah,
It's an easy assumption to make and I would have done so myself at one time. Please correct me someone if I miss a detail here, but the Aztecs spoke Nahual. They called themselves the Mexica (pronounced Meshica). I'm not sure if they also called themselves something like Aztecas; that word comes, I think, from Aztlan, the legendary homeland far to the north where these fierce people came from. Anyway, Nahual is still alive and probably the most widely spoken native language in Mexico.
The Aztecs did not conquer all the surrounding peoples. To the southeast were the Tlaxcalans, who allied themselves with Hernán Cortés to defeat the hated Aztecs. Farther to the west, the Purhépecha realm was likewise unconquered until the Spaniards came along. It must have been a magnificent kingdom as well, with its own temples and artisanry that survives to this day, with each small city having its own specialty. The locals in Pátzcuaro say that it is the only place in the Americas where a catholic official took an interest in the Indians as people and saw their talent, so bishop Diego de Vasco is revered there to this day. The survival of the local language may be part of his legacy, but as I was leaving the country, I saw a newspaper headline about the government granting, in response to pressure, more radio airway rights to indigenous groups. Anybody know of any Indian radio stations in our country?
Still, both Mexico and the United States would benefit from more speaking both languages.
I think that if everybody spoke at least one more language and were more open to other cultures, we would be having a world living in more in harmony with each other.
I have live en Spain and hardly anyone there spoke English, if they did it was very poorly pronounced. I have live en Guatemala and it's the same thing there. The difference is that in Spain they are a lot better of, and therefore have a better formal education and in Guatemala, well, we all know that their formal education is low, and when the teacher doesn't speak a proper English, then it's very hard to learn and actually reach a point of comprehension.
I have also heard that learning a Germanic language (such as English) being a Roman speaker (as the Mexicans and the Guatemalans), is way harder, due to their way of pronouncing the letters. And I suspect that it also has to do with the fact that English is a level 5 language to learn.
That being said, I believe you can only get the real feel of a language, if staying for a period of time in a country where they speak the language you desire to learn, being in interested in practising it. You yourself are the key to the learning process. I realize that the three weeks I have stayed in the US, probably isn't sufficient to get in touch with the English language, but we have the good or bad fortune, depending on how you look at it, that most of the series on TV are American or English, so we hear English on a everyday basis. We do that because we subtitle everything, except for the programs in our native tongue.
I am a firm believer in subtitles, because the viewer is challenged all the time to 1) read fast 2) learn new word 3) hear new languages.
And about loosing a language, after having spent 8 years learning it; I don't believe it's completely lost, it will be with you latently as you would discover if you went to France. What I did to not loose my Spanish was to go to Spain or Guatemala every year during my vacation to ensure that this would not happen to me.
In Denmark we start learning English in the forth grade, German in Seventh grade, in High school you start either French or Spanish. Being a small language (5 million people) we have to learn at least one other language. As we continue our education in the Universities half of the textbooks will be in English. So if you haven't learned English by that time, well you're in for a lot of hard work.
Generally I think that language education are focused entirely tooo much on grammar, and way too little on practise. I hate grammar, I never liked it, I do however realize that we have to learn it, but not at the expense of practise. All the different teachers a have had through out the times, has always emphasised on grammar, which is why I find it important to stay even for a little while abroad practising the language you desire to learn.
But I think that the teachers for the most part have a high level of skills, and this gives us as students an advantage. I know the same kind of educational level in language education is to be found in Sweden and Norway, but anywhere else I'm not so sure. But the student's level can only be as good as the teacher they have before them.
Gerry, you're correct about the Scandinavian part; I'm from Denmark. ;O) As I wrote I have never lived in the US or any other English speaking country (The power of television) So I realize that you can learn a language with out ever living abroad, but I believe it to be a lot better and I might add easier to get the feel of the language. Not to mention kicking the accent of ones own language...
In Denmark we start learning English in the forth grade, German in Seventh grade, in High school you start either French or Spanish. Being a small language (5 million people) we have to learn at least one other language. As we continue our education in the Universities half of the textbooks will be in English. So if you haven't learned English by that time, well you're in for a lot of hard work.
Generally I think that language education are focused entirely tooo much on grammar, and way too little on practise. I hate grammar, I never liked it, I do however realize that we have to learn it, but not at the expense of practise. All the different teachers a have had through out the times, has always emphasised on grammar, which is why I find it important to stay even for a little while abroad practising the language you desire to learn.
But I think that the teachers for the most part have a high level of skills, and this gives us as students an advantage. I know the same kind of educational level in language education is to be found in Sweden and Norway, but anywhere else I'm not so sure. But the student's level can only be as good as the teacher they have before them.
I'm not saying our educational system is better, just that we have a bigger need for learning language, and have an educational legislation to support that. AND Danish people (the vikings ;O)) have always been travelling a lot, which is another incentive to learn.
"SPANGLISH": THE LANGUAGE OF CHICANOS
by Rosa María Jiménez
Writer's comment: During my freshman year at the University of California - Davis I decided to take an English class to improve my writing skills—and they needed much improvement! In English 3, I quickly became very frustrated because no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't manage to get a grade better than a C on my papers. I was disappointed in myself, but instead of sulking, I put all my effort into writing essays. I would consult the tutors at the Learning Skills Center and seek advice from my professors. After three years of writing papers in History and Spanish, I took English 101—not because I wanted to, but because I had to fulfill my English requirement. To my surprise my professor, Elizabeth Davis, asked me to submit my final paper to the Prized Writing contest. I did, and it paid off—just a little example of how perseverance and practice pay off, to encourage my peers.
As a Mexican living in America, I wrote about an aspect of my culture that is part of my everyday life—my language. Most bilinguals code-switch to varying degrees, but rarely do we think about its meaning. To many, code-switching (Spanglish) may seem insignificant or confusing, but I feel that analyzing this process will demystify code-switching and reveal its importance in the Chicano community. This is especially important for Chicanos themselves; pride in ourselves is only the first step para mi Raza (for my people).
—Rosa María Jiménez
Instructor's comment: The last assignment in an English l0l—Advanced Composition—course was for each student to be inspired by one of our model authors and write an essay, with references, based on some aspect of the "model's" published argument. A particular element in James Baldwin's famous l979 New York Times essay, "If Black English Isn't a Language, Then Tell Me, What Is?" provoked Rosa Jiménez. Inspired she was—to write a compelling argument defending Spanglish. Baldwin blasts white readers for calling Black English a dialect. It is nothing less, he argues, than the only window whites have into the black experience, if they would only look. Rosa takes a milder but, all the same, self-assured tone. Her essay combines personal asides with sociological observations. Clearly, she modeled Baldwin's way of making subtle distinctions about how a language can comfort, protect, and define a group.
—Elizabeth Davis, English Department
Click on the link to read her essay.
"SPANGLISH": THE LANGUAGE OF CHICANOS
by Rosa María Jiménez
http://prizedwriting.ucdavis.edu/past/1995-1996/jimenez.html
http://www.elpuertoricanembassy.org/images/Spanglish%20Sandwhich.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanglish
http://www.spainview.com/spanglish.html
Thank you for writing this article...very nice. Most Americans I talk to know very little about this subject. Most seem to think that anyone south of the border is "spanish"
I have many Guatemalan friends --some of which did not learn spanish until they started elementary school--their parents do not speak any spanish. There are (I belive) 23 (counting the mestizos/ladinos) ethnic groups in Guatemala alone with different languages and customs, clothing ect..
I have often asked my friends to speak in their native language and it is very interesting to hear --I belive the language is called Mam (no sure of the spelling)
On a recent trip to Guadalajara flying Aero Mexico, I ran into a few native Indians who spoke Purhépechan. One woman wore a sign in spanish saying I am indian, I do not speak spanish, so she would not encounter trouble when travelling I assumed.