I know that many of the Gather members are writers with dreams of being published, paid in dollars not just Gather points (those are great too). For those of us seeking official publishing, inevitably, the question has come up, "How will publishing on Gather affect my chances of publishing elsewhere?" Well, I have asked the Gather staff this question, have gotten feedback from other Gather members, and have come up with my own opinions for publishing on Gather. I invite you to discuss my opinions and your own, ask questions, then each writer can find his or her happy medium for publishing on Gather.
From the Gather Staff, about publishing on Gather:
The Editor's Desktop: Gather Publishing Tips : Jennifer Hodge, the Associate Editor of Gather.com explains, "anything you create and publish on Gather is copyrighted by you as soon as you publish it. You own the content and can therefore publish it elsewhere."
Gather Staff - Tell Us How Publishing at Gather.com Can Help or Hinder Publishing in Hard Copy?: David Cooperstein, the editor in Chief of Gather.com explains, "On the topic of copyright, it is true that posting your work here means it has been published, and therefore it is illegal [for someone else] to reproduce it. To determine if someone has copied work off of Gather to republish as their own, the content owner/author should copy a paragraph into Google and search the web. If those exact words match another posting on the web, the content may have been copied.
On the issue of publishing, there is something called First North American Serial Rights, which is what magazines typically buy. If you publish to the entire Gather community and beyond, then it is considered published. But if it is published privately on Gather (to friends or in Groups) then it is still considered unpublished."
So what we get from Jennifer Hodge is that publishing on Gather helps us prove what we have written is ours, legally speaking. Technically, it does not give you official copyright – you have to pay for that, but this is enough to be legally binding. This is a good thing! Now, going into what David Cooperstein has said regarding First North American Serial Rights. Say you want to have your short story published in a literary magazine, or an article in a magazine. If you publish it to all of Gather it is considered "published." If the magazine you want to sell to wants First North American Serial Rights, and requires you to sign an agreement stating your article or story has not been published, the chances are that they will not accept your Gather published article/story. Say you do not disclose this to them, you delete the article/story from Gather, and the magazine accepts your story/article. A month later, Joe Schmo sends a letter to said magazine with a copy of your story/article from Gather that he printed while it was still on there. Guess what this means? BIG LAW SUIT FOR YOU! Don't do it! My opinion, and how I will proceed: Disclose everything to the publisher about the article/story. If they still want it, great! If not, it wasn't meant to be!
Now, remember, if you publish to a group within Gather, it is NOT PUBLISHED and therefore the First North American Serial Rights have not been met yet. Now, I would still point out that you released it in a private group on Gather. This is in case Joe Schmo is in your group and still sends a letter to said magazine. The printed article will not say, "this article is for viewing in XYZ Group" (unless Gather plans on adding such a feature – not a bad idea to help protect the authors here). If you tell the magazine in advance and let them come to Gather and see that it is only open to certain people, they will know what they are getting into.
You would think I would be an advocate to only publish to groups. NO! Publishing to the community at large will build a resume for you as a writer, showing publishers that you can write and attract an audience. It will also force you to practice the art of writing and can give you ideas for things that you may take and turn into larger, publishable projects in the future. You also gain great feedback, get to know people, and have tons of fun in the process. So, I say, if it is something you really want to publish elsewhere, keep it to yourself or limit who sees it on Gather. If it is not as important, or only a small part of something you may publish later, show it off to the Gather community. We love to read everyone's contributions and we have so many talented writers here.
That is my opinion . . . what is yours?
For more helpful articles such as this - check out Monica's How to Gather Tips and Tutorials
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Thanks David also!
I think the stuff we write and "publish" on sites like this (and writing.com, about.com or even amazon.com book reviews or blogs) effectively serves us, as writers, as a form of "beacon" to the world. What I mean by that, is that we make ourselves "visible, " and when the time comes for someone to say to us "Show me something you've written," it allows for a unique way to point to writing *other* than a carefully selected portfolio.
Now, I grant you that my perspective is that of being more of a technical writer-for-hire, with an emphasis more on "CAN you write," than "WHAT do you write." But still. Sites like this are very useful. Anyone here remember "Themestream?"
Best,
Peter
Jessie - well, this does copyright your photos here, but I would think if you are wanting to publish them, that you should not be posting them to ALL of Gather. Pictures are VERY easy to take and use, and Gather offers no features to prevent copying. Do you add any watermarks? I think if you are just having fun - post the pictures on Gather, but if you want to some day have a book with those photos - I would think a publisher would say NO GO if they were openly available on Gather.
Janelle - MANY have had this question - that is why I posted this. I am surprised that Gather does not make a special section of FAQ's, but perhaps they do not want to discourage writing on Gather. I like what my Dad said on my sister Pam Freeth's post, when she was announcing that she would not continue her Olivia Story so she could try to publish it: "I think you're being smart about this. I don't know what the issues are about posting on Gather before you try to publish, and it would be a shame to have Life with Olivia be the test cast."
George - Ooh - I'd love ten roses lol! Roses and tulips are my favorite flowers! You are welcome - thanks for the virtual roses!
Danielle
Do you believe one could get "Discovered" here? Yes, I do think you could get discovered here at Gather just as you could publishing anywhere else. But I would not rest on your laurels waiting for that to happen. Instead, use Gather as a tool to show that you can write and attract an audience. The fact that you have a webpage through Gather is a tool you need to utilize. When you do decide to try to publish something, you can reference to your pieces published through Gather and direct them to your homepage.
Also, be sure to use your name as a tag for everything you post. When you search by tags, it pulls all the articles with that tag and shows any that have been Editors' Pick, what are the "Community Picks" for that Tag and other neat features that you do not have on your home page.
What does the copywrite icon mean if the work is already considered copywritten? It is there more asa reminder to the reader that this is a protected document not to be stolen from - no less protected without that symbol, unless you have gone though the process of actually paying for the true copywrite (you pay a fee and send a copy of the document to the US copywrite office - it is official and not necessary since copywrite is recognized in other ways). You can do it to remind in a friendly way that this is indeed your writing and you do not want anyone taking it without permission. That should go without saying here on Gather.
Thank you for your kind comments! I will check you out as soon as time permits! I hope you found this helpful!
You do not have to pay for "official copyright." Copyright resides with the author of a work simply from the act of creation. Scrawl it on an envelope and stick it in your desk drawer and you still have copyright. Publishing it here helps establish that you did indeed write it, so it helps document that copyright.
What you have to pay for is registering copyright. And this only matters if there is an actual infringement - that is, if someone steals your copyrighted work. If there is an infringement you can sue to stop it on the basis of your copyright in any case, but if the copyright was registered before the infringement, then you can sue for statutory damages, that is, you can collect some bucks to reward you and punish the infringer.
But. in general, it doesn't make sense to pay for registration with that in mind.
As for the question of whether Gather can help you publish elsewhere, I'd say yes, if only for the valuable feedback you can get from other writers. However, I find that most people are too generous on this site and more is needed in the way of constructive criticism. I never get better when people tell me how great something is, but when I get an insightful critique, it usually opens my eyes to the faults in my writing. That's why I've started the Fiction Writers Anonymous.
However, when it comes to readership, that's nice - but the old-fashioned stuff still counts for more to most editors, publishers, and lit agents. Meaning, they really want to see your work in print. Have you published an article in a newspaper or on a more established online site? Have you had a story in one of the lit journals, either online or in print? What are your street creds in writing?
I got my agent primarily because I have a background in journalism with hundreds of published articles and a few published short stories to my name. I'd say the more you publish with sites that are screened by editors, the better off you are. Posting your own stuff is great, readership is great, but you need the "approval" of editors behind you.
The internet now has tens of up-and-coming literary sites like Void Magazine (which co-sponsored the short story contest here), which counts for more with the people that can help you make your writing your paid career.
Which is, of course, incredibly difficult to do. I'm glad to see that so many people here are trucking away at their dreams. It's great to see some persistence. To get noticed amongst so many good/great writers takes some doing these days. Hard work and, unfortunately, a lot of luck.
Susie - great advice and great to hear from someone who is further on the path! Thanks!
cheerz!
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Secondly, thanks for posting this info. I am in the start up steps of a book and would like some imput, but like others on here, do not want to see my book coming out in someone else's name.
Kevin - thanks for letting me know about the link - I will see why Jennifer's article is coming up like that and post a new link if there is one. Good luck on the book.
You have talked about "First North American Serial Rights", what about those of us who are not living in USA. For instance, I'm in Spain.
Yes, I aspire to be a published writer. To do that, I must practice. I must also have exposure. If these articles are good enough, they will find their way...If not, then they will stay on Gather.
However, there are some advantages to posting your work on Gather that haven't been mentioned. One, if you are seeking an agent or a publisher for your first book, what better way to demonstrate that your work is marketable if your writing is posted here and has received favorable ratings. After all, Gather.com often receives something like 65 million hits/day! That's astronomically more than the number of people walking into your average Walden's every day!! So, in my opinion, would-be and published writers get more exposure on Gather.com than bookstores shelves!
And you can use that to your advantage. When recently contacting an agent, I included my rating on an excerpt of my first novel and comments that were emailed to me about my work posted online, and the agent actually emailed me and thought it was a great idea to include that sort of information with a query letter. Enough said on that point.
Secondly, Gather is a great testing ground! Whether you've ever published anything or not, this is a great forum to post your work before looming down that long road toward securing publication. You'll also receive more honest opinions than you would from Aunt Jane or your best friend who might tell you that you're the next Hemmingway even if the story is awful. And maybe, your first attempt at a novel will be, and that's okay. So, you'll fix it, or write another one!
And, believe me, reading whatever comments, even harsh ones from a total stranger are better than 200 form rejections (and I received more than that before publishing my first novel) that say nothing as to why your work "isn't for them"--or hearing your work is WONDERFUL when maybe it just needs revision. Or maybe, you're writing in the wrong genre.
Take Stephen King. He wrote 5 novels before publishing Carrie, and I think they were all thrillers--and obviously HORROR is his forte, but it took FIVE duds getting rejected before he realized that his only published work, a short story or two, were horror stories--so, maybe, he'd give that a try (smile), which he talks about in On Writing.
So, how will you benefit from Gather? First and foremost--Gather is A GREAT PLACE to hone your skills, receive feedback, positive or otherwise, and secondly to get exposure!
I am a part of a writer's group, The Wordweavers in the Orlando area. it is excellent and i have an opportunity to have positive and negative critique on one article/poem a month. there are many published writers in this group. editing is what i REALLY need, so this group is extremely helpful. i'm looking forward to the writer's tip exercise that was presented this week and look forward to its challenge.
today i started asking my writing group what they felt about blogging. most of them don't do it and would like to hear from me on the strengths and weaknesses of such. so, when i writer that for our newsletter, i'll publish it here.
the main issue that i have with the comments is often they are too kind and vague 'i like this' stuff. wish folks would be specific, e.g. 'need more character development, too much passive voice, doesn't flow, switching tences, etc.
thanks for his article. it is a saver
That includes articles and book excerpts.
I sometimes cross-publish entries between Gather and my blog, but not consistently, because having too much copied content on my blog might negatively affect my Google ranking.
BTW, Gather may get lots of hits, but even the top articles here only get about 75-100 unique views in a 24 hour period, which is NOT A LOT. I don't necessarily think a huge fan base on Gather will impress a lot of publishers, since it's really not much of a fan-base at all.
What I picked form this is that anything I publish to Gather and allow "everyone" to read is considered published, while things I restrict viewing on are considered "not published". Therefore, I can self-publish anything I write but can only sell First Rights to articles and images that I have restricted the viewing on.
your insights are helpful indeed. I write more poetry than articles, and have belonged to some independent forums for poetry critique, in which I discovered that a few of my poems were copied and another person was claiming them to be his own on a different site.... It's definitely not a pleasant experience, and therefore I am hesitant about posting to such an open database of people. Mostly, I like to post poetry to forums and such because I respect an honest critique and have grown as a writer because of the opinions and suggestions of others. I find it very valuable, but not so certain that Gather is the place to do it. Still sitting on the fence post with that. You bring up some interesting points to ponder. Thank you.
Bill = that is my understanding. I think you owe nothing to Gather, but they would love for you to acknowlege them, of course.
Maddy - yes = that is a problem we writers have to worry about. Do what you feel comfortable with. Just remember that posting on Gather does set your copyright, so those who steal your works could be prosecuted.
"anything you create and publish on Gather is copyrighted by you as soon as you publish it"
This is misleading. It's copyrighted as soon as you write it. Publishing to gather establishes a date.
"anything I publish to Gather and allow "everyone" to read is considered published, while things I restrict viewing on are considered "not published". I can only sell First Rights to articles and images that I have restricted the viewing on"
That is incorrect.
You can sell first rights to any organization. Publishing on gather is not considered "legitimate" (as there are no standards, you can publish anything, just as in POD), and not considered a first publish.
HOWEVER most publishers will want you to remove your articles from Gather, so there is not a free version competing with the published one.
Gather is not considered "published" in the publishing industry, for better or for worse.
There's more on copyrighting at:
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976788948
It's good to know what Gather says about this since writing is a very important part of my life and Gather has given me another opportunity to share it! kudos!
Please consider publishing this to these two groups:
Member Guides to Gather (memberguides.gather.com)
Copyright and Fair Use (fairuseabuse.gather.com)
Thank You!
Elizabeth - Great idea. This is what I do as well - though I am not published yet. You never want to post online a completed, ready to be published work if you want to be published traditionally. Thanks for your input!
Richard
Pat
I have often wondered something. Some of the things I publish on Gather are rough drafts . For example, I may put the first run here on Gather to get feedback, but then I will go back later and edit and polish it....very often even changing the title. Very often it bears little resemblance to the first piece I published on Gather. I wonder if the rewritten version would be considered previously published...... Any thoughts, Monica?
From my email last month:
Hi again,
After discussing your question further with Gather staff, members retain the complete copyright of their content published on Gather. Members are not required to include the copyright symbol on their content, but there is certainly no harm in doing so, and it is a recommended practice. Members are at liberty to submit material published on Gather elsewhere and a new publisher would not have to pay royalties to Gather Inc.
I hope this information is helpful to you and other writers on Gather. Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Best regards,
MaryAnne
We retain all rights on our content.